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Author Topic: Danger of criticizing priests and bishops  (Read 2419 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
« on: May 22, 2013, 07:19:08 PM »
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  • Danger of Criticizing Bishops and Priests

    'Alas, how sad it is that some are far more ready to judge (and criticize) priests than they are to pray for them.

    In the 13th century many priests were involved in seeking wealth and having a pleasant life.  They hardly preached at all, virtually never studied, and paid for important positions so that they could get even more money.  
    A number of priests openly lived with women, causing great scandal.  
    Some of the bishops lived in unbelievable wealth, and would sell Church positions to keep their rich life style.  Many of the people were just as bad as their leaders.

    As a result, many so-called prophets had appeared, some good, some not-so-good, who promised terrible punishments if people did not reform.  
    Peter Waldo was one of the reformers who had a great beginning.  He gave up his riches to live in poverty and spread the faith.  He had many followers who also lived as poor men, and did penance.
    However, when they began to preach without permission against the lazy and sinful priests, the Archbishop of Lyons, France, excommunicated them.

    The group, called the Waldensians, took their case to the pope, and he encouraged them.  
    He praised Peter for living in poverty and gave him and his followers permission to urge the people to live moral and holy lives wherever the bishops allowed them to do so.  But since they had not studied theology they were not permitted to explain the Bible or to instruct people in the faith.  Unfortunately, they began to do both.

    In time they got into all sorts of errors, such as placing their interpretation of the Bible over the authority of the pope, denying both purgatory, and veneration of the saints.  They also refused to go to confession to immoral priests, preferring to confess to good people who were not priests.  As a result, the Waldensians were excommunicated by the pope in 1184.

    However, there were still a number of them going all over, spreading their errors.  


    Despite their sincerity, and their living radical Gospel poverty, they all fell astray.  They lost the faith.  
    But, their contemporary, Francis of Assisi did not.  Why not?  Because he never went anywhere to preach the Gospel without permission of the priests.  Furthermore, he would never criticize the priests and bishops — even the most lazy and immoral ones — nor would he allow his friars to do so.  (As a result, the Franciscans were always welcome just about everywhere they went.)

    Once a Waldensian challenged Francis on his unshakeable reverence for priests, by pointing out the local pastor who was living in sin.  “Must we believe in his teaching and respect the sacraments he performs?”

    In response, Francis went to the priest’s home and knelt before him saying,
    “I don’t know whether these hands are stained as the other man says they are.  [But] I do know that even if they are, that in no way lessens the power and effectiveness of the sacraments of God…  That is why I kiss these hands out of respect for what they perform and out of respect for Him who gave His authority to them.”  His challenger left in silence.

    The Franciscan Order revolutionized the faith in Europe during the 19 years from Francis’s conversion at age 25 to his death.  There were thousands of Franciscans by the time he died, spreading the true faith, not by pointing out the sins of the priests and bishops (of which there were certainly many), but by living the gospel so simply and so joyfully that people found it irresistible.

    Today there are many priests and even bishops who seem to invite criticism (Ring a Bell?)  by what they say and do-administrative decisions etc, but most are far less culpable than the priests and bishops of St. Francis’ time.  
    The recent scandals posted on this website evidence this.



    I believe such criticism can feed our own pride, and make us feel superior to our Church leaders.
    From that point it is not a great leap to begin to lump their teaching in with their behavior, and to begin to reject the doctrines of the Church. The danger is real.

    Jesus warned his followers not to reject the doctrines of the scribes and pharisees despite their shameful behavior:

    Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.  
    They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger.  
    They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the ѕуηαgσgυєs, and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men. (Matt. 3:1-7)

    A few verses later he proclaims, “Woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites,” and calls them “blind guides,” and “brood of vipers.”  
    Nonetheless, people are to “practice and observe whatever they tell you,” because they are, in effect, descendants of Moses.

    I would venture to say that most of our priests & bishops are far better than the scribes and pharisees, and they are the descendants of the apostles.  

    How important it is that we listen to them, especially in light of the fact that Jesus told them, “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).

    Liturgical Tampering


    It is not up to us to decide what administrative decisions should be made or contradict those that do. Voicing convern is fine, but this goes well beyond that, into the realm of the sacriligious and blasphemous.

    Losing Joy
    There is a further danger of being so ready to criticize bishops or priests: we can become very dour Catholics.  
    The more we criticize and complain, the more we bring down the morale of the Church and the more gloomy we become.  

    (St. Teresa of Avila said once, “God deliver me from gloomy saints!”)  Many sincere, orthodox Catholics have become sour people because they continued to dwell on the faults of the clergy, so sour that they have been unable to contribute something positive to the Church, despite their many talents.

    This is not to say we may not acknowledge the wrongs of priests and bishops, but we should do so reluctantly and with understatement.  

    And then, we should move on to the positive, the things that will build up the Church and her morale.  We should never dwell on the negative elements of priests and bishops — or anyone else, for that matter — because it will make us melancholy people, always ready to point out the negative aspect of any situation.

    The devil is most clever in bringing down those who sincerely love God and the Church.  
    He gets them to dwell on the negative elements of the Church and thereby destroys their joy.  
    We mustn’t fall for this ruse.  If we want to be holy, we must focus on the positive, and let nothing destroy our joy.

    God the Father spoke to St. Catherine of Siena about his “ministers,” the priests.  She recorded it in her Dialogue:

    …[It] is my intention that they be held in due reverence, not for what they are in themselves, but for my sake, because of the authority I have given them.  
    Therefore the virtuous must not lessen their reverence, even should these ministers fall short in virtue.  And, as far as the virtues of my ministers are concerned, I have described them for you by setting them before you as stewards of ... my Son’s body and blood and of the other sacraments.  This dignity belongs to all who are appointed as such stewards, to the bad as well as to the good.

    …[Because] of their virtue and because of their sacramental dignity you ought to love them.  And you ought to hate the sins of those who live evil lives.  
    But you may not for all that set ourselves up as their judges; this is not my will because they are my Christs, and you ought to love and reverence the authority I have given them.

    You know well enough that if someone filthy or poorly dressed were to offer you a great treasure that would give you life, you would not disdain the bearer for love of the treasure, and the lord who had sent it, even though the bearer was ragged and filthy...  You ought to despise and hate the ministers’ sins and try to dress them in the clothes of charity and holy prayer and wash away their filth with your tears.

    Indeed, I have appointed them and given them to you to be angels on earth and suns, as I have told you.  When they are less than that you ought to pray for them.  But you are not to judge them. Leave the judging to me, and I, because of your prayers and my own desire, will be merciful to them. [1]

    Is judging the same as criticizing?  It’s close.  The Random House American College Dictionary defines the word “criticize” as “1. To make judgments as to merits and faults. 2. To find fault.”

    Clearly, the Lord wants prayers, not judgment for his priests.  Alas, how sad that some are far more ready to judge (and criticize) priests than they are to pray for them!  
    Imagine how much better off the Church would be if all the energy given to criticizing priests and bishops here devoted to prayer and penance for these men; and how much better off those who prayed and fasted would be!

    Who benefits from scandals? Qui Bono? Surely it is the enemies of the Church, mostly the Judaics.
    There could well be agents operating to that end. Bella Dodd certainly testified to personally placing agents.
    The recent SGG 'witch hunt' by Mr. Eamon, Mr. Geble and Dr. Droleski smell also of such an action, though some might even be well intentioned.


    It’s an easy trap to fall into.  We call it the “Isn’t it awful syndrome.”

    Sometimes this involves biting tongues when the subject is a less-than-perfect priest (GOD's representative here on earth).

    As I mentioned earlier, it is not wrong to acknowledge the errors of priests or bishops, or gently point them out.  But, when it becomes a zealous sport to pontificate about such errors, and to verbally attack these clerics personally, it goes too far.
    (ring anys Bell?)

    Love the Bishops
    People have a rather rose-colored idea of the life of a bishop.  It’s not so pleasant.  
    About 15% of his work is making decisions. The other 85% is dealing with headaches.


    When people publicly criticize a bishop, or any man, for that matter, the one criticized will often dig in his heels for his position even he may not care that much about it.  
    He does that to show that he won’t be manipulated by those who try to strong-arm him, even if the criticism is well-intended or well-placed.

    On the other hand, people such as St. Catherine of Siena and St. Bernard of Clairvaux had tremendous influence over bishops by their letters.  
    It is not hard to see why: their letters were humble and respectful, and full of love.  “But they were saints,” one might argue.  They became saints, but if you examine their lives you will find that many did not recognize their sanctity when they were alive.  Furthermore, it was their sanctity that inspired them to urge reform with love, and so it will be with our sanctity, if we strive for it.

    The priests and bishops are probably no worse than they were in the time of St. Catherine of Siena, or St. Francis of Assisi.  

    In fact, they are much better, in general, despite the shameful scandals of a few, in recent years.  We have a choice to make: to give in to our sadness and become a “priest-basher” or “bishop-basher,” always ready to lament with great energy the faults of our clergy; or, while acknowledging the errors of the clergy, we can become morale-builders in the Church, always emphasizing the positive, always ready to build up, not tear down.  
    And, if we look closely, we’ll see a lot of positives in the Church today, and in every age.

    St. Paul said it well:
    “Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.  
    But we beseech you, brethren, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work.  Be at peace among yourselves”
    (1 Thess. 5:11-13).  This is the way to true holiness, and the joy which always accompanies it.  And, this Christian joy, unlike sullenness, is infectious.

    1. Catherine of Siena; The Dialogue, translated by Suzanne Noffke, O.P., New York: Paulist Press, 1980, pp. 229-231.




      "One should NEVER attack a priest, even when he's in error, rather one should pray and do penance that I'll grant him My grace again.  
    He alone fully represents Me, even when he doesn't live after My example!"

    "When a Priest falls we should extend him a helping hand through prayer and not through attacks!  I Myself will be his judge, no one but I!"

    "Whoever voices judgment over a priest has voiced it over me; Child, never let a priest be attacked, take up his defense."
    (Feast of Christ the King 1937)

    "Child, Never judge your confessor, rather pray much for him and offer every THURSDAY, through the hands of My blessed Mother, Holy Communion [for him]. (18.6. 1939)

    "Never again accept an out-of-the-way word about a Priest, and speak no unkind word (about them) EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE!  Every Priest is My Vicar and My heart will be sickened and insulted because of it!  If you hear a judgment [against a Priest] pray a HAIL MARY."
    (28. 6. 1939)

        "If you see a Priest who celebrates the Holy Mass unworthily then say nothing about him, rather tell it to Me alone!  I stand beside Him on the alter!"
    "Oh pray much for my priests, that they'll love purity above all, that they'll celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with pure hands and heart.  Certainly the Holy Sacrifice is one and the same even when it's celebrated by an unworthy priest, but the graces called down upon the people is not the same!"  (28. 2. 1938)


    The Cure' D' Ars said:
        "One ought to pray earnestly, especially at the Ember Seasons, that God will give us good priests.  If they are saints, what good they are able to do! But, whatever they are, never speak against them."

    (The following was taken from the Pieta booklet, concerning Mutter Vogel's Worldwide Love, pg.29,

    Altoting, South Germany (29. 6.1929)



    "Oh, if we could only understand Who is that God
    Whom we receive in Holy Communion,
    then what purity of heart we would bring to Him!"
    ~ St. Mary Magdalen of Pazzi

    Offer a Rosary for the salvation and sanctification of all God's Priests and Religious.
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    Offline Matto

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 07:25:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew

    But, their contemporary, Francis of Assisi did not.  Why not?  Because he never went anywhere to preach the Gospel without permission of the priests.


    So, the SSPX did what? They certainly did a lot of things without permission from the conciliar priests and bishops.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline jen51

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 08:18:55 PM »
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  • Thankyou for this, Matthew!!! What a good and edifying reminder.
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Napoli

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 09:04:09 PM »
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  • Thanks Mathew. It's good to be reminded of this regularly.

    God bless you and your family.

    Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!

    Offline Frances

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 10:52:27 PM »
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  • This needed to be said.  Many sincere Catholics are endangering their souls with a spirit of disdain for the priests and bishops with whom they disagree.  It is one matter to approach a  priest, a bishop, the Pope in a spirit of humility and charity. It is quite another to complain in public before approaching the person in private.  As for public mockery, it is NEVER acceptable for the inferior to scorn his superior.  If a priest or bishop is unworthy of his office, God will judge and mock.  I have noticed a good amount of scorn and mockery on "Resistance" web stes, CI included. There are several sites I will not visit because of the gross disrespect for those holding the sacred offices established by our Lord Jesus Christ.  In geneal, there is much less of it on CI, but I cannot help but notice every time I've posted against mockery, I get more thumbs down than up.  Let us consider seriously, do any CI regulars truly desire that Bishop Fellay, Fr. Rostand, Fr. Couture, yes, even Max Krah burn forever in hell?  If so, get to Confession!
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline bowler

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 05:23:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    This needed to be said.  Many sincere Catholics are endangering their souls with a spirit of disdain for the priests and bishops with whom they disagree.  It is one matter to approach a  priest, a bishop, the Pope in a spirit of humility and charity. It is quite another to complain in public before approaching the person in private.  As for public mockery, it is NEVER acceptable for the inferior to scorn his superior.  If a priest or bishop is unworthy of his office, God will judge and mock.  I have noticed a good amount of scorn and mockery on "Resistance" web stes, CI included. There are several sites I will not visit because of the gross disrespect for those holding the sacred offices established by our Lord Jesus Christ.  In geneal, there is much less of it on CI, but I cannot help but notice every time I've posted against mockery, I get more thumbs down than up.  Let us consider seriously, do any CI regulars truly desire that Bishop Fellay, Fr. Rostand, Fr. Couture, yes, even Max Krah burn forever in hell?  If so, get to Confession!


    That road goes in both directions, the pro-accord priests mock and scorn Bp. Williamson with impunity, and they teach that all the priests that have left are possessed by the devil, or some other sort demonizing for the ears of simpletons. And I've even been told that the Resistance priests are going to Hell.

    It's all a sign of ignorance, and ignorant frustration. The masses have always been that way, just be glad that your greatest fans today don't call for you to be crucified tomorrow like Christ's "great fans" did.

    Ignorance and fallen nature, man without God's Grace is dung.

    Offline Matto

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 01:56:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    And I've even been told that the Resistance priests are going to Hell.


    Do the people who told you this also say that the Novus Ordo priests are going to Hell?
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline bowler

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 03:18:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: bowler
    And I've even been told that the Resistance priests are going to Hell.


    Do the people who told you this also say that the Novus Ordo priests are going to Hell?


    Good point. I did speak to them extensively,  and at the end I think they sympathized, or at least understood the resistance priests positions.


    Offline Frances

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 03:25:58 PM »
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  • If it's wrong to mock Bishop Williamson, it's wrong to mock Bishop Fellay.  It's a worn out phrase, but "two wrongs don't make a right."  Does one sin ever cancel out another?  No.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline JohnGrey

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 03:28:54 PM »
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  • Critical evaluation, which is often unfairly cast as criticism or judgement, of bishops and priests, especially those who do not possess canonical mission (and I certainly include the four bishops of the SSPX in that group) and thus lack any binding authority save whatever power of sacramental terrorism they are able to wield through their respective cults of personality and their squabbles with other such clerics, is not just licit but absolutely vital during the current apostasy.

    Facing the situation we do, we all too often selfishly wish for the situation to be regularized, not for the salvation of others but because the surety of that situation allows us to abdicate our diligence in the execution of our faith.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 03:51:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    Let us consider seriously, do any CI regulars truly desire that Bishop Fellay, Fr. Rostand, Fr. Couture, yes, even Max Krah burn forever in hell? If so, get to Confession!


    I'm not aware of any pro-Resistance person who desires that Bishop Fellay or any of the other people you mentioned burn in hell.

    I agree that mockery of Bishop Fellay is unnecessary. However, as bowler said, the road goes in two directions. There are just as many - maybe more - insults flung at Bishop Williamson and Resistance priests.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Frances

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 04:16:36 PM »
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  • John Grey, et. al.:--Agree.  Critical evaluation is fine.  Mockery out of malice or desire to score points with or against others is sinful.  There is a difference between a strongly-worded refutation or charicature cartoon that inspires serious thought and anonymously posting a doctored photo of a  bishop made into a jackass dancing in the flames of hell.  The latter speaks only of the character of its creator.  It is distressing to realize an adult actually spent his time and energy on such a "project."
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 05:25:03 PM »
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  • Matthew is right!  Matthew's post isn't giving carte blanche to the New Mass and the New Church.  It is wrong for us to speak ill of the Catholic Church and it could be considered wrong for us to speak well of the Concilliar Church (hopefully in the future it will officially be known as the Montinian Church after it's founder Mr. Montini).

    I think we need to constantly pray for the SSPX.  They are the flag bearers of Tradition.  They are responsible for the continuance of Catholicism because the novus ordo isn't Catholicism (it's a mockery of Catholicism - a mocker on TV generally tries to look similar - think the way Tina Fey mocked Sarah Palin.  Just like there are no friends or family of Sarah Palin who would mistake her for Ms. Fey in a crowded room, no soul should mistake the Catholic Church for the novus ordo) and the indults are, in all likelihood, novus ordites playing dress up.  

     :pray: ---->Pray for ALL SSPX priests, even the "accordistas" because they may just be experiencing great temptation!

     :pray: ---->For all Independent and Sede priests because they are Vicars of Christ too!

     :pray:----->For Bishop Fellay (let's stop assuming we have all the facts!  it's okay to doubt but let's pray for his benefit)


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 07:11:54 PM »
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  • Martin Luther was a priest.
    Judas was an Apostle.

    Today's renegade priests count on this special protection that wasn't really meant to apply to them.

    Offline Napoli

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    Danger of criticizing priests and bishops
    « Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 08:08:20 PM »
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  • It's a fine line we walk. If we have criticisms, let us say them with charity. Openly mocking priests/bishops is problematic. My confessions seem riddled with these kinds of sins.
    Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!