Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Dancing at Mass  (Read 1760 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline copticruiser

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 262
  • Reputation: +173/-1
  • Gender: Female
Dancing at Mass
« on: January 18, 2011, 11:01:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does anyone have info regarding this practise before Vatican 11 and now?  What is the church's stance on this practise?


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31182
    • Reputation: +27095/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 11:35:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Dancing during Mass was unheard of before Vatican II.

    If anyone did it back then, it must have been in the dark corner of a remote monastery somewhere.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5768
    • Reputation: +4621/-480
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 07:08:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There are no "African Rites" in the Catholic Church.  I don't know anything about the Coptic Rite (which is not Catholic) so I can't answer the question in relation to that rite.  Danicng is not, and never has been, permitted in the Roman Rite.

    In the Conciliar Church, everything is permitted even if it is not permitted.  If you were asking about what is allowed in Conciliar rites, then you're just being silly.

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 07:30:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Just got my annual Bishops appeal, from our "conservative" bishop....notes the different "ministries", one of which is to "African americans", showing a pic of a lady with a long mum-mu dress and her laundry wrap on her head, man handling the chalice and it notes how african music was played at their Mass and fruits were brought up with the offerings!!!!

    an insult to Martin de Porres, Black Abba Moses,etc!

    none the less, the majority of crumb-seekers are happy with him putting up with and continuing this s^*&
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 02:10:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I've heard of African-themed Masses doing such things, basically they are so-called Masses that have African culture in them. Soemone on CAF was talking about it when I was still on there, and that person liked such Masses. Something you'd come to expect from that place.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline copticruiser

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 262
    • Reputation: +173/-1
    • Gender: Female
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #5 on: January 20, 2011, 12:55:58 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I read that dance was allowed in some African rites because it was a spiritual practise and was not considered entertainment. Anyways is there any concrete evidence that this practise has never been allowed? In any rites? As usuall we are interested in pre vatican not post vatican.

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5768
    • Reputation: +4621/-480
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #6 on: January 20, 2011, 07:08:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: copticruiser
    I read that dance was allowed in some African rites because it was a spiritual practise and was not considered entertainment. Anyways is there any concrete evidence that this practise has never been allowed? In any rites? As usuall we are interested in pre vatican not post vatican.


    How on earth can we show you evidence that the practice was never allowed?  Prior to Vatican II such sacrileges were never contemplated so the Vatican never issued statements against it.

    You're asking for evidence that doesn't exist.  It's like asking for evidence that, before Vatican II, the Church absolutely forbid women priests.  The issue simply wasn't discussed.  As for dancing at Mass, the issue simply didn't come up.  The Liturgical books simply don't provide for any dance during the Liturgy, thus, dancing during the Liturgy was not allowed.

    Also, please define your terms.  What are these "African rites" you keep talking about?  Since at least around 1570 there have been absolutely no separate African rites in the Catholic Church.  The congregationalism in the Conciliar Church where people talk about different "rites" or "inculturization" of the Liturgy, started a little before Vatican II though was never authorized until much later and only then in Conciliar circles.  The Catholic Church recognizes this practice as non-Catholic.

    What you have read appears to be either false history, which is common in Modernist circles and was warned against by Pope St. Pius X, or simple fantasy--which is also common in Modernist and Conciliar circles.

    The very fact that the dancing was considered "spiritual" and not simply entertainment is the greatest proof that it was never allowed.  When did the Catholic Church incorporate Pagan spirituality in her Liturgy?  Never.  While many Pagan customs have been adopted and Christianized (e.g., the Christmas tree) such customs have never been incorporated into the Liturgy.  You are absolutely correct that these Pagan dances are "sprititual", but the spirit is not of God but of Satan.  

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13823
    • Reputation: +5568/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #7 on: January 20, 2011, 09:56:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have read that the NO draws the line at the Tango.

    No Tango's allowed! Polkas are ok.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline umblehay anmay

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 378
    • Reputation: +28/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 12:44:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stubborn
    I have read that the NO draws the line at the Tango.

    No Tango's allowed! Polkas are ok.


    Sadly... this is not the case stubborn....

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #9 on: January 20, 2011, 12:57:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    I've heard of African-themed Masses doing such things, basically they are so-called Masses that have African culture in them. Soemone on CAF was talking about it when I was still on there, and that person liked such Masses. Something you'd come to expect from that place.


    true,and more Protestantizm-everyone doing their own worship and in their own tongue,etc....despite the fact the Latin Rite is NOT vernacular.....

    but, people love 'um to death and tell me how he is changing things-really?, then why was that "mass" allowed and why the Bishop himself was there???

    Not surprising and not to be out-done, the Hispanics had their own coddling Mass and section too-how they bring so much to the Church (oddly, they do not bring their worn money, for no ethnic parisehs of their being built like the Italians did, the Germans did, the Byzantines did)
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 12:59:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: copticruiser
    I read that dance was allowed in some African rites


    what "african rites" are there???
    is see no "african rites" in the following:

    http://www.mncuf.org/rites.htm
    http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm (and yes, they seem to cheer the NO I know, but still, proves a point-no African Rite)
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Belloc

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6600
    • Reputation: +615/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 01:00:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stubborn
    I have read that the NO draws the line at the Tango.

    No Tango's allowed! Polkas are ok.


    Polka isagift the the Polish "rite" :roll-laugh1:

    "strike up the music"
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline copticruiser

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 262
    • Reputation: +173/-1
    • Gender: Female
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #12 on: January 21, 2011, 12:50:06 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: TKGS
    There are no "African Rites" in the Catholic Church.  I don't know anything about the Coptic Rite (which is not Catholic) so I can't answer the question in relation to that rite.  Danicng is not, and never has been, permitted in the Roman Rite.

    In the Conciliar Church, everything is permitted even if it is not permitted.  If you were asking about what is allowed in Conciliar rites, then you're just being silly.



    Actually I was raised coptic orthodox they use the St.Basily liturgy they claim they start from St.Mark the evangelist. I also have been to a coptic catholic church which I assume was a rite. In the orthodox church they have very strict rules all the 7 sacraments unfortunately their own pope I believe the current is Pope Shenouda. They have alot of monestaries in the dessert and follow a strict way of life. It was because of my orthodox upbringing that I found it very easy to embrace the traditional catholic faith. At the top of my head there are a few major differences. They esteem Mary as the greatest saint and holy mother of God but not born without sin. They have no purgatory but do pray for the dead? Obviously not under the pope. They do allow for divorce and remarriage and birthcontrol but just dont encourage it. Womens heads are covered in Church and u cant receive communion with your shoes on. Its a 4hr service. The first two hours are prayers the last two hours is the actual mass.

    Offline copticruiser

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 262
    • Reputation: +173/-1
    • Gender: Female
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #13 on: January 21, 2011, 12:59:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Belloc
    Quote from: copticruiser
    I read that dance was allowed in some African rites


    what "african rites" are there???
    is see no "african rites" in the following:

    http://www.mncuf.org/rites.htm
    http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm (and yes, they seem to cheer the NO I know, but still, proves a point-no African Rite)



    Thanks for the link I saved it. My husband was one inquiring about African rites I think cause I came from the Coptic rite and we have a friend who is Atrian and they have their  customs as well that are a little different than the latin. I think alot of innovations that he was concerned about were just happening post vat 11. Nothing seems to surprize us as to the creative innovations which the NO come up with. Very disheartening as we wear the Catholic Banner with pride and dignity and it seems everywhere we look there is irreverence and as Cardinal Ottivianna said " A striking departure from our Catholic Faith" thanks Annie

    Offline Roman Catholic

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2679
    • Reputation: +397/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Dancing at Mass
    « Reply #14 on: January 21, 2011, 10:39:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: copticruiser


    Cardinal Ottivianna said " A striking departure from our Catholic Faith"



    Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci said that about the latin Novus Ordo in its normative form.

    At the time they said that, in their worst nightmares they probably never envisaged the gross abuses that were later introduced, like dancing during the liturgy etc etc.

    Now it very clear that the Novus Ordites have departed from the Catholic Faith and slammed the door shut behind them.