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Author Topic: Theological Heresies of the New Mass  (Read 1572 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Theological Heresies of the New Mass
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2021, 07:37:53 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 19, 2021, 07:34:06 AM
What an idiot!  There's nothing else to say.

At no point did I say that the epiklesis was of the essential form.

All I was saying is that it's not correct to refer to the epiklesis as heretical.

You can't even read English, much less are you competent to discuss theological matters.

And yet your apparent “rebuttal” is that you agree with everything I just said?

:laugh2::laugh1:
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Offline bodeens

Re: Theological Heresies of the New Mass
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2021, 08:25:36 AM »
The usual suspects here to derail a thread analyzing the NO. Worth posting this again:

I probably should have made it say "running interference for the NOM" but I think this is still valid.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Theological Heresies of the New Mass
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2021, 08:45:52 AM »
Quote from: bodeens on November 19, 2021, 08:25:36 AM
The usual suspects here to derail a thread analyzing the NO. Worth posting this again:

I probably should have made it say "running interference for the NOM" but I think this is still valid.

Agreed.  No idea why Lad is yapping about the epiklesis when we’re talking about the Novus Ordo.  Thanks for trying to reign him in!
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Theological Heresies of the New Mass
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2021, 09:57:01 AM »
Quote
I haven't studied your entire list, but I'll take exception to this one.  Eastern Rites have always used the "epiklesis" ... which goes back to the Greek Church Fathers.  There's no doubt that the Holy Spirit is involved in the transubstantiation.  We profess in the Creed, in fact, that Our Lord was conceived of the Holy Ghost, so the Holy Spirit was involved in Our Lord taking flesh and is also involved in the mystery of transubstantion.  As you yourself pointed out, there's a distinction between the SACRIFICE part of the Mass and the transubstantiation, and the Holy Ghost is clearly involved in the latter just as He was at Our Lord's incarnation.  This part is in fact Traditional theology and not "heresy".
Thanks, I will study this aspect.  I'll admit, i'm not familiar with eastern rites.  I was reading through Trent's session on the Mass, and was comparing it to the V2 catechism on the Mass and the idea of the Holy Ghost is not emphasized as much as V2 does.  When I read the phrase "power of the Holy Spirit" in the new catechism, my modernist alarm bells go off.  One could argue that this phrase has been hijacked (it's used so often by modernists) and has very little to do with "epiklesis" but that's another discussion.  Thanks for your comment either way.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Theological Heresies of the New Mass
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2021, 10:00:03 AM »

Quote
I probably should have made it say "running interference for the NOM" but I think this is still valid.
Yeah, typical Sean, running around starting fights about anything and everything.  No conversation, no teaching, no learning, just fighting.  Right out of the playbook of infiltrators or revolutionaries, whether he knows it or not.
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