Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?  (Read 1300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Geremia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4119
  • Reputation: +1258/-259
  • Gender: Male
    • St. Isidore e-book library
Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
« on: November 16, 2014, 04:15:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  Could or would Burke call a General Council to depose Antipope Francis?
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 04:21:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't know if he could. But he will not.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41857
    • Reputation: +23915/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 05:09:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • No.  Councils cannot depose popes.
    .....

    Though a Council could declare him a non-Pope.


    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13819
    • Reputation: +5567/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #3 on: November 16, 2014, 05:20:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Could or would Burke call a General Council to depose Antipope Francis?


    Only if he hooks up with Fr. Kramer.  :dancing-banana:
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4119
    • Reputation: +1258/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #4 on: November 16, 2014, 05:49:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    No.  Councils cannot depose popes.
    .....

    Though a Council could declare him a non-Pope.
    Yes, that's what I mean by depose. A council could declare a pope a heretic.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7610
    • Reputation: +617/-404
    • Gender: Male
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #5 on: November 16, 2014, 05:52:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is no need to formally depose Frank as the sham  'election' that smuggled him into the Vatican is not legal in the first place...  :fryingpan:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4119
    • Reputation: +1258/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #6 on: November 16, 2014, 07:13:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: roscoe
    There is no need to formally depose Frank as the sham  'election' that smuggled him into the Vatican is not legal in the first place...  :fryingpan:
    Certainly, he's not a member of the Church, but a council publicly deposing (or declaring him already deposed) would clarify things for everyone.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline Luker

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 507
    • Reputation: +639/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #7 on: November 16, 2014, 08:27:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What do you suppose Burke and a small handful of neo-con Cardinals are supposed to vote on?  The vast majority love Francis and would probably vote to canonize him as a living saint before calling him out as a heretic.  They live and breath modernism same as Francis
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!


    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7782
    • Reputation: +4577/-579
    • Gender: Female
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #8 on: November 16, 2014, 09:00:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    No.  Councils cannot depose popes.
    .....

    Though a Council could declare him a non-Pope.



    True, not even an Ecuмenical Council has the authority to depose the Pope. It would have to be another Pope, since a Pope can be judged by none in this world. However, the Church has dealt with anti-Popes before.

    This is how:

    Quote

    HOW TO IDENTIFY...
     The first thing we have to do is understand how to identify an antipope. It's not always easy. It could involve heresy, but it doesn't have to. For example, you could get a perfectly orthodox Roman Catholic as an antipope. It's happened before. In such cases, there would be something wrong with the election process. In ages past, sometimes conclaves were put under political pressure from the state. This can result in the election and instalment of an antipope. Or it may have nothing to do with the election process at all. It could simply be a failure, by the man who was elected pope, to fulfil the role of his office. This could be done by extreme corruption or heresy. That's not to say that legitimate popes can't be corrupt. They can be, and we've had our share in history. However, the surefire giveaway of an antipope is known heresy. You see, it is possible for a legitimate pope to believe heresy. It's even possible for a legitimate pope to act on heresy. Yes, it's even possible for a legitimate pope to speak about heresy in candid "off the cuff" remarks. However, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a legitimate pope to actively teach heresy to the faithful while exercising his pastoral role of the entire Church as pope. This is what the Holy Spirit guards the legitimate pope against. So, if we have a man in the papacy, who issues an OFFICIAL encyclical, or edict of some sort, that mandates the belief in a heresy, then we have an antipope.

    WHO IDENTIFIES...
     Here's the good news about that. When it comes to identifying an antipope, it is NOT the responsibility of the laity. Granted, lay Catholics should be watchful of such things, but in the end, it is not our responsibility to decide who is an antipope, any more than it is our responsibility to decide who is a legitimate pope. Those responsibilities fall squarely on the shoulders of Catholic bishops -- particularly cardinals and archbishops. The sad election of the antipope in Kansas, Pope Michael, is an example of what happens when laypeople try to take upon themselves the task of deciding such things. One thing can lead to another, and it follows to reason, that if laypeople can decided who an antipope is, then they can also decide who a real pope is. This of course generates some very bazaar results, as the case of the Kansas antipope (Pope Michael) has demonstrated. Our responsibilities as laity, deacons and priests, is to simply look to our local bishop or ordinary for spiritual guidance. Granted, we should compare everything our leaders say with the Scriptures and the Catechism of course, as we should always be diligent, but we must understand that the role of identifying an antipope is their burden to carry -- not ours. It would be inappropriate (and reckless) to take this burden upon ourselves. We have not been given the responsibility, or the gifts of the Holy Spirit, to make this determination. By judging for ourselves if the man in the Vatican is an antipope, we are behaving like Protestants, by taking spiritual matters (of great importance) into our own hands. If you're worried about the man in the Vatican being an antipope, you need to look to your local bishop or ordinary for guidance. Does he believe he's an antipope too? Do his brother bishops believe he's an antipope? If not, then there's a good chance you're wrong, and your fears are unwarranted.

    HOW IT WILL BE RESOLVED...
     If an antipope should arise anytime in the near (or distant) future, the problem will be resolved in some similar way to how it was resolved in ages past. In a worst case scenario, an ecuмenical council of the whole Catholic Church will be called, as we saw with the Council of Constance in AD 1414-1418. A more likely scenario would be an emergency conclave by the majority of cardinals. They will simply declare the current occupant of the Chair of Peter an antipope, and elect a new pope. That's it. Done. That's all there is to it. Now I would expect such an act would be followed by some general confusion for a while, but as soon as the dust settles, the majority of the world's bishops would realign with the new pope, and the antipope would eventually be forced to resign due to political and religious pressures. In these days of lightning-fast mass communication, I imagine those political and religious pressures would accuмulate rather quickly, forcing a quick resignation as a result. If not, well, we'll just have two "popes" for a while, until things start to sort themselves out. In time the antipope will be easy to identify, as well as the authentic pope.

    http://catholicozarks.blogspot.com/
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41857
    • Reputation: +23915/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Could Burke call a General Council to depose Francis?
    « Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 01:28:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    No.  Councils cannot depose popes.
    .....

    Though a Council could declare him a non-Pope.
    Yes, that's what I mean by depose. A council could declare a pope a heretic.


    Right.  Of course, the problem is this:  Who but a Pope can legitimately convene a Council?  What Pope would convene a Council to determine whether they should declare him deposed?  Now back in a less abnormal time, when you had the scenario of a single wayward Pope and where 99% of all Catholics would recognize his heresy, that could work.  Now, however, if Cardinal Burke tried to convene such a Council, you'd probably have at least 95% of all Novus Ordo prelates refusing to participate because they would back Francis.  So if the remaining 5% gathered in Council to declare him deposed, would that constitute a true Council?

    I'm afraid that we're in a major pickle here that only God can fix.