Author Topic: Controversial Pope-Interview by Eugenio Scalfari Deleted (Read 1693 times)

Geremia · « **on:** November 15, 2013, 02:49:17 PM »

(Vatican) The interview by atheist Eugenio Scalfari with Pope Francis has been deleted from the official website of the Vatican. On the 1st of October 2013 by the newspaper La Repubblica published an interview which sparked some incomprehension and violent criticism among some Catholics to the Pope's statements, which are contrary to the Church's teachings or are at least ambiguous in their formulation. The crux of the criticism was, among other things, the statement of Pope Francis on the autonomous conscience ("Everyone has their own idea of good and evil"), and the rejection of conversions ("proselytism is a giant stupidity", "I do not want to convert").

The interview was shortly afterwards completely reprinted and accepted by the semi-official newspaper of the Vatican, the Osservatore Romano. In addition and without comment, it was published on the website of the Holy See. Thus there was the impression that the interview is part of the ordinary magisterium of the Pope, which is now precluded in the deletion.

What remains are a half month's unnecessary confusion about the authority of this interview. What also remains is the self-inflicted confusion by the interview of the Pope - as is clear now - was as a private person. This leaves the question of whether a pope ever give an interview as a private individual and to make statements. His predecessors seem to have had good reasons not to do so. The Scalfari interview has confirmed it.

(source: Eponymous Flower)

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2013, 05:26:01 PM »

It was removed from the Vatican website, and in addition to the atheist journalist saying he went off his memory only, so that the very revealing statements can vanish into the memory hole.

In a couple years, there will be novus ordo talking heads who will describe these comments as "urban legend" and that they were never said.

LoverOfTradition · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2013, 06:50:11 PM »

Good. I'm glad it's gone.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2013, 08:02:20 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

It was removed from the Vatican website, and in addition to the atheist journalist saying he went off his memory only, so that the very revealing statements can vanish into the memory hole.

In a couple years, there will be novus ordo talking heads who will describe these comments as "urban legend" and that they were never said.

These days people download copies of the interview into hardcopies.
Copies are available from every news organizations in a Internet search.
And it will never be erased.
It would foolish deny that the interview never took place.
Most Important, God remembers.

Geremia · « **Reply #4 on:** November 15, 2013, 09:51:37 PM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

Most Important, God remembers.

Let's hope He forgets, too… He is infinitely merciful, after all.

2Vermont · « **Reply #5 on:** November 16, 2013, 07:58:37 AM »

I guess I'm not seeing why this is a good thing. I should be happy that the Vatican is trying to hide it/make believe it never happened?

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 16, 2013, 08:55:40 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

I guess I'm not seeing why this is a good thing. I should be happy that the Vatican is trying to hide it/make believe it never happened?

Yeah, I don't really get it either. I suppose the implication is that the Vatican is trying to mitigate the scandal caused by Francis' blasphemy and heresy, but considering it was up there for over a month I'm not really impressed. Neither have they issued anything in the way of an apology or an amended translation, they've just chose to completely ignore it.

2Vermont · « **Reply #7 on:** November 16, 2013, 09:02:11 AM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: 2Vermont
I guess I'm not seeing why this is a good thing. I should be happy that the Vatican is trying to hide it/make believe it never happened?

Yeah, I don't really get it either. I suppose the implication is that the Vatican is trying to mitigate the scandal caused by Francis' blasphemy and heresy, but considering it was up there for over a month I'm not really impressed. Neither have they issued anything in the way of an apology or an amended translation, they've just chose to completely ignore it.

I think coming out and calling a spade a spade would do much for mitigating the scandal. But that would admit to too much.

soulguard · « **Reply #8 on:** November 16, 2013, 09:05:48 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

I guess I'm not seeing why this is a good thing. I should be happy that the Vatican is trying to hide it/make believe it never happened?

It is damage control. But what damage could the interview have caused, but for giving fuel to traditionalists who have problems with hierarchy's apostasy but are still convinced that they can count on the pope. They cant. It is bad that it is now censored by the Vatican, but because this is the internet, it is now preserved for eternity, and will be accessed by trads who seek it out.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2013, 03:33:47 PM »

.

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: 2Vermont

I guess I'm not seeing why this is a good thing. [Should I] be happy that the Vatican is trying to hide it/make believe it never happened?

Yeah, I don't really get it either. I suppose the implication is that the Vatican is trying to mitigate the scandal caused by Francis' blasphemy and heresy, but considering it was up there for over a month I'm not really impressed. Neither have they issued anything in the way of an apology or an amended translation, they've just chose to completely ignore it.

Their attitude and manner remind me too much of Menzingen's!

Quote

I think coming out and calling a spade a spade would do much for mitigating the scandal. But that would admit to too much.

That's just it. And it's also the reason they refuse to publish
the Third Secret of Fatima: "It would admit to too much."

It seems to be good that it was removed, but it is not good that
a public abjuration of the scandalous content has not been made.
This will not be forgiven by God until it has been abjured. Error
must be identified if it is to be condemned.

Of course, there has been no condemnation of any errors since
the October 11th, 1962 M.R.S. of John XXIII.

Quote from: soulguard

Quote from: 2Vermont
I guess I'm not seeing why this is a good thing. I should be happy that the Vatican is trying to hide it/make believe it never happened?

It is damage control. But what damage could the interview have caused, but for giving fuel to traditionalists who have problems with hierarchy's apostasy but are still convinced that they can count on the pope. They cant. It is bad that it is now censored by the Vatican, but because this is the internet, it is now preserved for eternity, and will be accessed by trads who seek it out.

The interview as published, was at least weak in doctrine, and at
worst openly heretical. Whenever doctrinal weakness or heresy
is published, it necessarily does great harm. Anyone who does
not understand that, has grave deficiencies in basic thinking.

.

2Vermont · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2013, 08:37:35 AM »

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francis-francisco-29755/

The Holy See has decided to delete the interview between Pope Francis and Eugenio Scalfari, the founder of Italian newspaper La Repubblica from the Vatican’s main portal (www.vatican.va). Scalfari had met with Francis to thank him for the open letter received and published by the newspaper.

In response to journalists’ questions about the reason for this decision, the Holy See’s spokesman, Fr. Federico Lombardi replied: “The information in the interview is reliable on a general level but not on the level of each individual point analysed: this is why it was decided the text should not be available for consultation on the Holy See website. Its removal is a final update on the nature of this text. Some mistakes were made regarding its value, which was questioned. The Secretariat of State took the decision.”

Ever since the interview was published, Fr. Lombardi declared that the Pope had not looked over the text personally. Scalfari had sent the text to the Vatican. The article did in fact contain expressions that did not seem like typical expressions Francis would have used. There was also a mistake regarding what had gone on in the Sistine chapel. According to one of the answers, after obtaining the minimum number of votes required to be elected to the pontificate the Pope apparently went away to pray before accepting. This piece of information was false, as confirmed by a number of cardinals, including the Archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan.

A statement – completely compatible with the Catechism of the Catholic Church - regarding the importance of conscience issue gave rise to many debates and discussions. Lombardi denied that the decision to remove the interview from the Vatican website was taken at the request of the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Gerhard Ludwig Müller.

Seriously?

Meg · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2013, 12:14:55 PM »

I could be wrong, but it looks like the interview was deleted after the Pope spoke with an Italian traditionalist on the phone. The traditionalist, named Mario Palmaro, had written an article critical of the Pope in Il Foglio. I haven't been able to find a copy of the article in English, but apparently, Palmaro and the pope also spoke about the Scalfari interview. Rorate Caeli has more info about it. Rorate Caeli doesn't specifically say it, but kind of or sort of hints that maybe the article being taken down had something to do with the Pope's chat with Palmaro. Not that Pope Francis cares one whit about tradition at all, but maybe he gave some thought to what Palmaro said? I dunno.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/11/pope-personally-calls-traditional.html

2Vermont · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2013, 02:57:00 PM »

Quote from: Meg

I could be wrong, but it looks like the interview was deleted after the Pope spoke with an Italian traditionalist on the phone. The traditionalist, named Mario Palmaro, had written an article critical of the Pope in Il Foglio. I haven't been able to find a copy of the article in English, but apparently, Palmaro and the pope also spoke about the Scalfari interview. Rorate Caeli has more info about it. Rorate Caeli doesn't specifically say it, but kind of or sort of hints that maybe the article being taken down had something to do with the Pope's chat with Palmaro. Not that Pope Francis cares one whit about tradition at all, but maybe he gave some thought to what Palmaro said? I dunno.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/11/pope-personally-calls-traditional.html

In that case, he should do a lot more than just taking down a controversial interview. It just stinks to high heaven.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2013, 05:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Meg

I could be wrong, but it looks like the interview was deleted after the Pope spoke with an Italian traditionalist on the phone. The traditionalist, named Mario Palmaro, had written an article critical of the Pope in Il Foglio. I haven't been able to find a copy of the article in English, but apparently, Palmaro and the pope also spoke about the Scalfari interview. Rorate Caeli has more info about it. Rorate Caeli doesn't specifically say it, but kind of or sort of hints that maybe the article being taken down had something to do with the Pope's chat with Palmaro. Not that Pope Francis cares one whit about tradition at all, but maybe he gave some thought to what Palmaro said? I dunno.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/11/pope-personally-calls-traditional.html

Even if Francis, as a direct result of speaking with this Palmaro fellow, personally requested or required the interview taken down, considering that he has not issued any clarification (much less repudiation) it would seem that it's more of a PR move, to appease neo-cats and neo-trads who were worried about it. Those people extend the benefit of the doubt so far beyond reason, they only need a brief RC post hinting at Francis having something to do with it being taken down and they'll start screaming "Viva il Papa" and rip their shirts off like those weird Euros who play soccer.

Meg · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2013, 12:31:28 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: Meg
I could be wrong, but it looks like the interview was deleted after the Pope spoke with an Italian traditionalist on the phone. The traditionalist, named Mario Palmaro, had written an article critical of the Pope in Il Foglio. I haven't been able to find a copy of the article in English, but apparently, Palmaro and the pope also spoke about the Scalfari interview. Rorate Caeli has more info about it. Rorate Caeli doesn't specifically say it, but kind of or sort of hints that maybe the article being taken down had something to do with the Pope's chat with Palmaro. Not that Pope Francis cares one whit about tradition at all, but maybe he gave some thought to what Palmaro said? I dunno.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/11/pope-personally-calls-traditional.html

Even if Francis, as a direct result of speaking with this Palmaro fellow, personally requested or required the interview taken down, considering that he has not issued any clarification (much less repudiation) it would seem that it's more of a PR move, to appease neo-cats and neo-trads who were worried about it. Those people extend the benefit of the doubt so far beyond reason, they only need a brief RC post hinting at Francis having something to do with it being taken down and they'll start screaming "Viva il Papa" and rip their shirts off like those weird Euros who play soccer.

Yes, it could indeed be a PR move. It's not the Pope's style, unfortunately, to issue a clarification or repudiation. At least Benedict would issue such things, at times.

I wish I could figure Pope Francis out. Of course he's a modernist, but he seems like a modernist with Terrets Syndrome, or something like that, since he can't seem to control what he says. He just says whatever comes to mind, without thought to the ramifications. I guess that worked in Argentina, but as Pope, he's going to be under greater scrutiny. Maybe it comes as a surprise to him that not everyone is happy with modernism.