Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?  (Read 16210 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2018, 02:30:23 PM »
Quote
I think that the vast majority of FSSP priests wouldn't know how to celebrate the New Mass, even if they were asked. I doubt that they would ever be asked. Rome and ordinaries want to keep the FSSP fairly happy so that the faithful don't go over to the SSPX or independent chapels. They want to keep the money in the diocese.
Just as the devil has no need waste his time to tempt a person who is atheist (for the devil already "has him"), so new-rome has no need to force indulters to attend/say the NOM, if they already accept it as good.  And especially if they will keep quiet and not condemn the NOM for its sacrileges or errors.  The FSSP isn't allowed to criticize the errors of V2 or the NOM and for this compromise, new-rome allows them (for now) some measure of independence.  But their website openly states they will say the NOM if asked, so they accept it wholeheartedly.

Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2018, 11:04:20 PM »
That might mean something to those that think the ABL was some kind of a perfect traditionalist saint all along, but in reality, ABL was a cat that fell, and in the end managed to land on his feet. What do I mean by that?
ABL celebrated the Novus Ordo mass for quite some time till his seminarians convinced him not to do it. ABL signed all the docuмents of Vatican II. ABL stopped the worldwide response against Vatican II, by obeying Paul VI. ABL passed on to his seminarians the teaching that is the pillar of Vatican II, his belief that people in any religion can be saved by their belief in a God the rewards, which to this day is the Achilles heal of the SSPX, bringing them back to the counterfeit VatII church. If people in any religion can be saved by their belief in a God the rewards, then there are no errors in Vatican II, for it dogmatizes the false theory. That is why ABL signed everything.
Could it be that what ABL taught about salvation is what has always been taught by the Catholic Church?


Re: Is the Novus Ordo English Mass valid and does it impart grace?
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2018, 11:13:19 PM »
Happenby and Poche, you are missing the point.  You assume that just because the consecration MIGHT BE valid (Card Ottaviani, one of the top theologians said this is doubtful) that the mass is pleasing to God.  No, no, no.  The Eucharist is a sacrament, and mass is mass.  Two TOTALLY different things.  

If the priest starts a TLM and dies right after the consecration, canon law says the mass is incomplete, therefore not a mass.  

If a priest says a TLM but does not receive his personal communion, there is no mass.  If the priest omits the Offertory in a TLM, there is no mass, even though the consecration would be valid.  

How much more is there doubt about a NOM, wherein the Offertory, Canon and Communion prayers have been gutted, and the words “sacrifice”, “offering”, “Oblation”, “sin”, etc have been TOTALLY DELETED?  These changes affect the mass, even if they don’t affect the consecration/Eucharist.  

The mass is the mass; it is for God and its intentions and purpose are affected by the 3 PRINCIPLE PARTS - offertory, canon, communion.  The mass is bigger than just the consecration.  
I think you are mistaken on some points. When you said, "If a priest says a TLM but does not receive his personal communion, there is no mass.  If the priest omits the Offertory in a TLM, there is no mass, even though the consecration would be valid." It the preceding instances the mass would be a valid mass but it would have been improperly said.    
For the benefit of those who do not have access to the TLM I think we should recognize that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. This Eucharistic Jesus has a love that is so great that he willingly comes to through the hands of the unworthy priest so that he can be with us.