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Author Topic: Consecration = valid Mass?  (Read 342 times)

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Offline HeidtXtreme

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Consecration = valid Mass?
« on: Yesterday at 04:04:03 PM »
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  • I’ve seen various opinions on this topic, from theologians, priests, and people I know. I’m not sure which one is true. If a priest has the correct intention and matter, and pronounces the words of Consecration over the bread and wine, does that suffice for a valid Mass, even if it would be an illicit Mass? Or is that simply a valid Consecration? Is it possible to separate the Consecration from the Mass (I.E. have just a valid Consecration of the Eucharist without having a valid Mass)?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Consecration = valid Mass?
    « Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 04:07:49 PM »
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  • The mass is more than just the consecration.  Canon Law lays out multiple “what ifs” for if a priest dies right after the consecration.  The mass is not complete.  


    Offline HeidtXtreme

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    Re: Consecration = valid Mass?
    « Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 04:14:05 PM »
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  • The mass is more than just the consecration.  Canon Law lays out multiple “what ifs” for if a priest dies right after the consecration.  The mass is not complete. 
    But would the Eucharist be valid in such an instance. Basically my question is: Is it possible to just pronounce the words of Consecration over the bread and wine, with the proper intention, and get the Eucharist? Whether it’s in the context of an incomplete Mass or not.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Consecration = valid Mass?
    « Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 06:09:56 PM »
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  • But would the Eucharist be valid in such an instance. Basically my question is: Is it possible to just pronounce the words of Consecration over the bread and wine, with the proper intention, and get the Eucharist? Whether it’s in the context of an incomplete Mass or not.
    That's a complex question:
    a)  If a priest simply went into a grocery store and pronounced the words of consecration, yes, it would be valid.  But GRAVELY sinful and illicit.
    b)  Anyone who received the eucharist from such an action, would also be guilty of this sin.

    The eucharist is only supposed to be offered/consecrated in a Mass, because the eucharist's PRIMARY purpose is FOR GOD THE FATHER, and to fulfill the 4 primary purposes of prayer:  A-C-T-S
    A - Adoration of God
    C - Contrition for sin
    T - Thanksgiving
    S - Supplication/asking for our needs

    The eucharist is the unbloody sacrifice of Calvary.  It is God (Christ, through the priest) offering God (Christ Himself) to God (the Father).  That's the main purpose of the eucharist and Mass.  The two go hand-in-hand.

    The SECONDARY purpose of Mass is for the faithful, as a sacrament.  To help us gain heaven.

    But the primary purpose of Mass/eucharist is to adore God, and fulfill our OBLIGATION of prayer.

    That's why the new mass is so evil...because the devil is attacking God directly, by cutting off the worship which is due to God alone, and replacing it was blasphemy and mockery.

    If a priest were to just do a consecration outside of mass, then He is sacrificing Christ for unholy reasons, because...the Mass's intentions, offertory, canon prayers is what makes the sacrifice of Calvary holy and pleasing to God.  Take away the holiness of the mass, then you just have Calvary's suffering for no purpose.  And that is illicit (illegal) but also very immoral, because it blasphemes Christ's true act of sacrifice.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Consecration = valid Mass?
    « Reply #4 on: Today at 05:23:04 AM »
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  • I’ve seen various opinions on this topic, from theologians, priests, and people I know. I’m not sure which one is true. If a priest has the correct intention and matter, and pronounces the words of Consecration over the bread and wine, does that suffice for a valid Mass, even if it would be an illicit Mass? Or is that simply a valid Consecration? Is it possible to separate the Consecration from the Mass (I.E. have just a valid Consecration of the Eucharist without having a valid Mass)?
    In an interview, Fr. Wathen spells it out the clearest I've ever seen.....

    "....Question: As far as there are three main parts of the Mass, am I right? There’s the liceity, the morality and the validity. Would you explain each of these and give a little explanation of each of these in their different areas.

    Fr. Wathen: When you use the word liceity you’re referring to the question of whether the new mass is legal.
    When you speak of validity, you are discussing whether the consecration of the mass is valid and true, whether there is truly transubstantiation.

    When you discuss the matter of morality, you are questioning whether it’s a sin either to offer the new mass or to attend it.

    I hasten to say that if the new mass is against the law, then it is immoral, and if there is a question of validity in the consecration, then it is immoral for anyone to use it...."
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse