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Author Topic: Consecration of Russia - when and how?  (Read 1436 times)

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Offline Sgt Rock USMC

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Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2022, 12:21:31 PM »
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  • There are some who believe the Consecration was already accomplished...

    Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 1, p. 498:
    “…in 1952.  On July 7 of the same year, a month after the article by Dhanis, Pope Pius XII in his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno, accomplished this consecration of Russia and it alone, by name – so much for Dhanis declaring it impossible!” (Immaculate Heart Publications)


    Mark Fellows, Fatima in Twilight, p. 119:
    “The letter went on to request that Pius consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart.  He [Pius XII] did so in a letter to all Russians (Sacro vergente anno), writing in pertinent part, ‘today we consecrate and in a most special manner entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…’” (Marmion Publications, 2003)

    From Pope Pius XII

    Pope Pius XII, Sacro Vergente Anno (Apostolic Letter), July 7, 1952:
    “…just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…


    Offline Jr1991

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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #17 on: December 02, 2022, 12:27:56 PM »
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  • Sadly(but not surprisingly), the neo-SSPX has declared that Bergolio’s fake consecration of Russia is legit.

    Strange days.

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #18 on: December 02, 2022, 12:50:45 PM »
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  • There are some who believe the Consecration was already accomplished...

    Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 1, p. 498:
    “…in 1952.  On July 7 of the same year, a month after the article by Dhanis, Pope Pius XII in his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno, accomplished this consecration of Russia and it alone, by name – so much for Dhanis declaring it impossible!” (Immaculate Heart Publications)


    Mark Fellows, Fatima in Twilight, p. 119:
    “The letter went on to request that Pius consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart.  He [Pius XII] did so in a letter to all Russians (Sacro vergente anno), writing in pertinent part, ‘today we consecrate and in a most special manner entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…’” (Marmion Publications, 2003)

    From Pope Pius XII

    Pope Pius XII, Sacro Vergente Anno (Apostolic Letter), July 7, 1952:
    “…just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…

    Seems Pius XII would've understood it had to be in union with all of the bishops to meet the demand of the Blessed Virgin.  Are they commenting here simply on the fact that he did Consecrate Russia, but did so in a private manner, or do they think this fulfilled the request?  Strange.  The Frere Michel book is a great book.

    Online Yeti

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #19 on: December 02, 2022, 01:44:56 PM »
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  • There are some who believe the Consecration was already accomplished...

    [...]

    From Pope Pius XII

    Pope Pius XII, Sacro Vergente Anno (Apostolic Letter), July 7, 1952:
    “…just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…
    .

    Yeah, this is debated. I'm not sure what to think, but the quote from Pius XII up there doesn't convince me. Our Lady didn't say to consecrate the "peoples of Russia", she said to "consecrate Russia", so this doesn't look to me like it fulfills the requirements. Also, it was supposed to be done in union with all the bishops of the world, which I don't think was done here either.

    So I don't think it has been done the way Our Lady asked.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #20 on: December 02, 2022, 01:54:31 PM »
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  • .

    Yeah, this is debated. I'm not sure what to think, but the quote from Pius XII up there doesn't convince me. Our Lady didn't say to consecrate the "peoples of Russia", she said to "consecrate Russia", so this doesn't look to me like it fulfills the requirements. Also, it was supposed to be done in union with all the bishops of the world, which I don't think was done here either.

    So I don't think it has been done the way Our Lady asked.
    It's not an exact quote of what Our Lady said, but then again, the consecration words are not the same thing as the form of a sacrament which has to be done exactly the way the Church says.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #21 on: December 02, 2022, 02:01:02 PM »
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  • I'd always understood the Blessed Virgin gave the formula to Sister Lucy in 1929, while Sister Lucy was at Tuy.

    'The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father, in union with all the bishops of the world, to make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means

    Offline Sgt Rock USMC

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #22 on: December 02, 2022, 02:10:04 PM »
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  • Seems Pius XII would've understood it had to be in union with all of the bishops to meet the demand of the Blessed Virgin.  Are they commenting here simply on the fact that he did Consecrate Russia, but did so in a private manner, or do they think this fulfilled the request?  Strange.  The Frere Michel book is a great book.

    Have you ever looked into the Dimond's research on the subject?  It's well done with many references. 

    They explain the following....

    MHFM
    But didn’t Our Lady promise that Russia would be consecrated in union with all the bishops of the world?  No!  This is a key point.  Our Lady requested that Russia be consecrated in union with all the bishops of the world, but on July 13 she only promised that “In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph.  The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and it will be converted and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world.”  Notice that Our Lady didn’t promise: “The Holy Father and all the bishops will consecrate Russia to me…”  Further, heaven revealed that the actual fulfillment of the consecration of Russia would not be fully in accord with heaven’s original wishes; for instance, it would be “late”.

    They further go on to state...

    MHFM

    HE WILL DO THE CONSECRATION, BUT IT WILL BE “LATE” – FITS POPE PIUS XII
    It is certain that Pope Pius XI failed to consecrate Russia to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart.  Pope Pius XII also failed to do so for many years, but (as we saw) he finally did consecrate Russia in 1952.

    Our Lord to Sister Lucy, Summer, 1931: “Like the King of France they will repent and do it, but it will be late.  Russia will have already spread its errors throughout the world provoking wars and persecutions against the Church: the Holy Father will have much to suffer.” (quoted in The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 2, pp. 543-544)

    It’s clear that, as most commentators agree, Our Lord’s words “They” will repent and do it apply to the line of popes – just as popes in encyclicals refer to themselves as “We.” (“They” cannot refer to the pope and all the bishops, because all the bishops did not delay the request and therefore do not need to repent of delaying it.)

    That Pope Pius XII was the one who did it, but “late,” makes perfect sense.

    First, Pope Pius XII consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in 1942.  Ten years later, however, he “repented and did it” by specifically consecrating Russia.




    I don't know...  I think it's very interesting, and it makes sense to me.  




    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #23 on: December 02, 2022, 04:12:28 PM »
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  • Definitely interesting and I haven't heard it before.  The two things I might have an issue with are 1) the method to be used is so specific (all the bishops) and 2) the result, or fruit, of the Consecration itself.  The world has never experienced a period of peace, which will show (presumably to the entire world) the power of the Papacy and also Marian intercession.  Sure would be nice to know the 3rd Secret.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #24 on: December 02, 2022, 06:07:13 PM »
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  • This is one of the issues on which I do not see eye to eye with the Dimonds.

    What Our Lady was referring to with the errors of Russia wasn't the Soviet Union and/or China ... but their eventual substitution of the Catholic Church with the Anti-Church.  That's when these errors of Russia reached their peak, and that is what the Third Secret was all about, not about the physical murders committed by Russia, but about the spiritual murders caused by those behind the errors of Russia (the Jєωs).  There has been no "conversion" of the Jєωish assault ... which manifests itself primarily in what's happened to the Church.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #25 on: December 02, 2022, 06:09:27 PM »
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  • Yep, they have. Group rosary intentions at my chapel have been altered to the "conversion of Russia" instead of the "consecration of Russia". :facepalm:

    :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

    But ... Our Lady promised that Russia would be converted by the consecration.


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #26 on: December 02, 2022, 06:35:55 PM »
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  • Leave it to the SSPX to lambast everyone while changing, on the quiet, everything under the sun.  The facts, unfortunately, are too numerous to list here.

    Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us. 

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #27 on: December 02, 2022, 07:05:50 PM »
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  • As far as Pius XII or anyone else doing a consecration; if any pope had done it correctly, Russia would have be come a Catholic confessional state and the Immaculate Heart would be getting the honor it deserves.

    Pius XII and JPII and any others who did consecrations of Russia that were imperfect, or consecrated other things to the Blessed Virgin, seem to have only bought us time, or reduced the severity of the tribulations.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Consecration of Russia - when and how?
    « Reply #28 on: December 02, 2022, 08:09:15 PM »
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  • Quote
    Sgt: There are some who believe the Consecration was already accomplished...

    Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 1, p. 498:
    “…in 1952.  On July 7 of the same year, a month after the article by Dhanis, Pope Pius XII in his apostolic letter Sacro Vergente Anno, accomplished this consecration of Russia and it alone, by name – so much for Dhanis declaring it impossible!” (Immaculate Heart Publications)


    Mark Fellows, Fatima in Twilight, p. 119:
    “The letter went on to request that Pius consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart.  He [Pius XII] did so in a letter to all Russians (Sacro vergente anno), writing in pertinent part, ‘today we consecrate and in a most special manner entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…’” (Marmion Publications, 2003)

    From Pope Pius XII

    Pope Pius XII, Sacro Vergente Anno (Apostolic Letter), July 7, 1952:
    “…just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart…


    Time out.  I don't believe any of these authors testifies that Russia has been consecrated according to the instruction of Our Lady.  They simply record historical events without passing judgment on them.  For that reason, these brief excerpts can be misleading to the careless reader.
    Sr. Lucy herself did not recognize any of these so-called "consecrations" to have fulfilled the Virgin's demands.