Author Topic: confession- giving absolution to pedophiles (Read 2515 times)

curiouscatholic23 · « **on:** December 02, 2011, 02:20:41 PM »

One thing I am really struggling with is understanding imperfect contrition and some grievous sins, particularly against children.

As I understand it, when someone confesses a sin in the confessional even if they just have imperfect contrition, they are still forgiven.

So does that mean any sin is forgiven in the confessional?

What about some of these ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ novus ordo priests who raped literally hundreds of boys, are they forgiven if they just went to confession?

That just doesn't seem right to me.

On a side note, lets say a man comes into the confessional and confesses to being a serial child pedophile. Does the priest have an obligation to find out who he is and warn his parish for the public safety issue?

gunfighter · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2011, 02:36:47 PM »

Whether or not someone has contrition is judged by God. If he does not, he is not absolved.

All sins are forgivable. I understand your feeling towards pedophiles and I share it. However keep in mind the words of St. Francis, although you may be sitting next to a hardened sinner, God may be less pleased with you, because you have been given more grace.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2011, 02:44:38 PM »

Quote from: gunfighter

Whether or not someone has contrition is judged by God. If he does not, he is not absolved.

All sins are forgivable. I understand your feeling towards pedophiles and I share it. However keep in mind the words of St. Francis, although you may be sitting next to a hardened sinner, God may be less pleased with you, because you have been given more grace.

Could I be validly ordained a priest if I refused to give absolution for certain sins that I felt were not up for me to give absolution to (i.e. "priests" engaged in extensive acts of pedophilia, paritcularly those offered in satanic rites that Malachi Martin described)?

gunfighter · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2011, 03:25:24 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

Quote from: gunfighter
Whether or not someone has contrition is judged by God. If he does not, he is not absolved.

All sins are forgivable. I understand your feeling towards pedophiles and I share it. However keep in mind the words of St. Francis, although you may be sitting next to a hardened sinner, God may be less pleased with you, because you have been given more grace.

Could I be validly ordained a priest if I refused to give absolution for certain sins that I felt were not up for me to give absolution to (i.e. "priests" engaged in extensive acts of pedophilia, paritcularly those offered in satanic rites that Malachi Martin described)?

I doubt it. Because by doing so, you would be denying the efficacy of the sacrifice of Christ.

sedetrad · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2011, 05:05:38 PM »

I'll nip this in the bud with some reality. I work with sex offenders and child molesters. NONE of them would be caught ten feet from a confessional, so your scenario likely will never happen. These men very rarely have any remorse for their crimes or their victims.

Nishant · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2011, 05:36:49 PM »

Quote

As I understand it, when someone confesses a sin in the confessional even if they just have imperfect contrition, they are still forgiven.

Yes, that is part of the grace of the sacrament. Outside the sacrament, provided the desire to confess is present, perfect contrition avails the forgiveness of sin. Of course, it must be interior, universal, supreme and supernatural as the Baltimore Catechism linked here lays out.

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So does that mean any sin is forgiven in the confessional?

Definitely, for the blood of Christ cannot be overcome by human sin, nor does God will the death of the sinner, but that He be converted and live. To understand this you need to make the distinction between the guilt of sin and debt of punishment.

Guilt merits eternal punishment and as such is removed wholly or not at all. There is no stage in between. This is also the reason why if a person deliberately witholds but one mortal sin in the sacrament of reconciliation, he is not forgiven at all, does not enter a state of grace, but remains in the state of death, and moreover, commits sacrilege. For either all sins must be forgiven or none of them are.

But as regards the debt of temporal punishment, this may be undergone either in this life through civil law or in purgatory where it will be several times worse, although the holy souls there are still in the love of God, their purification, according to the Saints is more severe than punishment or imprisonment here.

Now, even after the guilt of sin has been forgiven, for the satisfaction of divine justice, penance is prescribed in the confessional.

Quote

What about some of these ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ novus ordo priests who raped literally hundreds of boys, are they forgiven if they just went to confession?

Yes, they are, the eternal punishment is loosened, the temporal punishment remains in proportion to the sincerity of his contrition and the penance he performs, and if he passes this life without making sufficient satisfaction, again, that is why there is a purgatory.

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That just doesn't seem right to me.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

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Does the priest have an obligation to find out who he is and warn his parish for the public safety issue?

if I refused to give absolution for certain sins that I felt were not up for me to give absolution to

Never. The seal of the confessional is of divine law and he who violates it excommunicates himself from the bosom of the Church. The sins of the penitent are strictly speaking for the Lord's ears alone, He it is who acts through His priest in forgiving the sins. The priest cannot reveal it in any way to anyone.

He may, however, prescribe a duly appropriate penance, for the grave and serious sin it is, and moreover direct that the man show a firm purpose of both restitution for his past wrongs and complete amendment in the future by impressing upon him the seriousness of what he has done.

St Jude Thaddeus · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2011, 05:45:59 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

Quote from: gunfighter
Whether or not someone has contrition is judged by God. If he does not, he is not absolved.

All sins are forgivable. I understand your feeling towards pedophiles and I share it. However keep in mind the words of St. Francis, although you may be sitting next to a hardened sinner, God may be less pleased with you, because you have been given more grace.

Could I be validly ordained a priest if I refused to give absolution for certain sins that I felt were not up for me to give absolution to (i.e. "priests" engaged in extensive acts of pedophilia, paritcularly those offered in satanic rites that Malachi Martin described)?

I don't know why you have doubts about this, curious. Gunfighter already explained to you above that if the sinner has contrition, and completes the assigned penance, he can be absolved.

Now, if he has to spend 7000 years in purgatory afterwards, so be it, but penance and absolution cannot be denied to an apparently penitent sinner just because we are disgusted by the sins he committed.

My mother, who was catechized back in the 1930's, cannot understand this. She still thinks that some sins are so abominable that the guilty party cannot ever be forgiven, and will go immediately to Hell upon dying no matter how contrite he is or how hard he tries to atone for what he has done.

On the other hand, she also believes that anything else besides those abominable sins is not a sin at all, and there is no need to confess it. This mentality seems to be predominant among the Novus Ordo crowd. They think that only Hitler and child molesters are in Hell, and everyone else will automatically go to Heaven, whether or not they ever went to Confession in their life.

Last I heard, mortal sin is mortal sin. Holy Church does mention the Five Sins Crying to Heaven for Vengeance, but any unconfessed mortal sin is enough to land you in Hell.

insidebaseball · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2011, 06:04:51 PM »

I'm sure their penace would be something like testing warheads with a hammer to find all the duds, like in the Bugs Bunny cartoon.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:17:31 PM »

Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus

Quote from: curiouscatholic23
Quote from: gunfighter
Whether or not someone has contrition is judged by God. If he does not, he is not absolved.

All sins are forgivable. I understand your feeling towards pedophiles and I share it. However keep in mind the words of St. Francis, although you may be sitting next to a hardened sinner, God may be less pleased with you, because you have been given more grace.

Could I be validly ordained a priest if I refused to give absolution for certain sins that I felt were not up for me to give absolution to (i.e. "priests" engaged in extensive acts of pedophilia, paritcularly those offered in satanic rites that Malachi Martin described)?

I don't know why you have doubts about this, curious. Gunfighter already explained to you above that if the sinner has contrition, and completes the assigned penance, he can be absolved.

Now, if he has to spend 7000 years in purgatory afterwards, so be it, but penance and absolution cannot be denied to an apparently penitent sinner just because we are disgusted by the sins he committed.

My mother, who was catechized back in the 1930's, cannot understand this. She still thinks that some sins are so abominable that the guilty party cannot ever be forgiven, and will go immediately to Hell upon dying no matter how contrite he is or how hard he tries to atone for what he has done.

On the other hand, she also believes that anything else besides those abominable sins is not a sin at all, and there is no need to confess it. This mentality seems to be predominant among the Novus Ordo crowd. They think that only Hitler and child molesters are in Hell, and everyone else will automatically go to Heaven, whether or not they ever went to Confession in their life.

Last I heard, mortal sin is mortal sin. Holy Church does mention the Five Sins Crying to Heaven for Vengeance, but any unconfessed mortal sin is enough to land you in Hell.

Is it ok to hope for the execution of child rapists, ESPECIALLY those who claim to be novus ordo priests?

While I think confession should be made available to them, nevertheless, their time on earth is over.

I think St. Pius V would agree with me.

Sigismund · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:30:17 PM »

Quote from: Cupertino

Quote from: sedetrad
I'll nip this in the bud with some reality. I work with sex offenders and child molesters. NONE of them would be caught ten feet from a confessional, so your scenario likely will never happen. These men very rarely have any remorse for their crimes or their victims.

I would rather daily flip hamburgers at Wendy's than regularly deal with such reprobate offenders. What is the use? Money? How depressing!

Perhaps, but Sedetrad does very important and difficult work.

I wouldd have a very difficult time forgiving a child molester even if repentant. Fortunately, I am not God.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:37:05 PM »

Yes, someone has to do it. Better that Catholics with charity their hearts deal with those people and their victims, rather than ungodly people who try to implement ungodly solutions.

Sigismund · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:39:10 PM »

Indeed!

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:41:41 PM »

Quote from: sedetrad

I'll nip this in the bud with some reality. I work with sex offenders and child molesters. NONE of them would be caught ten feet from a confessional, so your scenario likely will never happen. These men very rarely have any remorse for their crimes or their victims.

Yes, if by the grace of God they become contrite; it is manifest for all to see. Through their own doing God has withdrawn his grace from most of those depraved reprobates, and they do not want to confess. Most of them are practically incorrigible in a human and spiritual sense.

LordPhan · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2011, 10:11:28 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

On a side note, lets say a man comes into the confessional and confesses to being a serial child pedophile. Does the priest have an obligation to find out who he is and warn his parish for the public safety issue?

I am curious how you do not know that this is the worst possible sin a Priest could commit, it is automatic excommunication, automatic removal of his priestly office and automatic baring of ever having said faculties restored. It is a crime against God and it is sacriledge for a Priest to even hint at anything he has heard in Confession.

As to your later point about wishing them to be executed, Confession removes the mortal stain if the person is contrite, It does not remove any other punishments due, but it is the police's job to find that out.

Any sin is forgiveable by God if the person is contrite, has the will to never do it again, and wants to better themselves and change their life.

As for Imperfect Contrition, Perfect Contrition is being sorry because you have offended God, Imperfect Contrition is being sorry because you are afraid of hell.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2011, 11:05:22 PM »

I am sorry for making this post. Yesterday I was out with my novus ordo family at a restaurant and I just couldn't believe who everyone lives care free as if they will never be judged by Our Lord. I was disgusted by my family and the novus ordo. I had decided that I wanted to enter a seminary or monastery to test my vocation.

Then I woke up today and I started doubting things of the faith. I have a real hatred for these vatican 2 serial rapist priests and the bishops who covered them because they have done so much damage to the church. Ireland is a good example. The "novus ordo" church had done so much damgage towards traditional catholicism. 80% of the abuse that took place in the novus ordo was ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖly related. A lot of weak souls who don't understand catholicism simply left the Vatican 2 sect because they couldn't stand the hypocrisy anymore.

I then started doubting if these so called priests who have done so much harm to souls through their despicable scandal could ever be forgiven by Our Lord. I then started doubting even confession itself, it started snowballing for me doubting the entire faith. This was probably the worst day of my life. I now realize this was probably a mortal sin of despair, and that God is the only true just judge. Not me.