Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: poche on April 19, 2018, 04:19:15 AM
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As the Austrian Catholic news website Kath.net reports (http://www.kath.net/news/63484) today, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith – with explicit approval of Pope Francis – rejected the 22 February 2018 handout (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/germanys-bishops-approve-communion-for-protestant-spouses) concerning the admittance, in individual cases, of Protestant spouses of Catholics to Holy Communion as it had been approved by the German Bishops’ Conference under the leadership of Cardinal Reinhard Marx. We have confirmed their report with our own sources close to the Vatican.
Kath.net relies for its story on “well-informed Vatican sources,” according to which this handout “has been sent back to the sender.” Only last week, there had come out reports about a letter (https://onepeterfive.com/seven-german-bishops-appeal-to-vatican-against-intercommunion/) written by seven German bishops and addressed to the Vatican, in which they ask for clarification in this matter. One of these seven bishops, Bishop Stefan Oster, had subsequently explained (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-prelate-explains-why-seven-bishops-asked-rome-for-clarification-on-i) in detail what the objections of these bishops were.
https://onepeterfive.com/cdf-pope-reject-intercommunion-handout-of-german-bishops-conference/
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Good news or am I missing something?
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It should be pointed out that the German Bishops' Conference denies the reports that their docuмent has been rejected by the Vatican:
http://www.lastampa.it/2018/04/19/vaticaninsider/eucharistic-hospitality-in-germany-towards-a-meeting-in-rome-o8e4cnzL1XP1ZScbDXvhSL/pagina.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
While the initial reports credit "sources close to the Vatican", the German bishops are publicly saying that the report is false. To be sure, they have been asked to hold a debate on the subject in Rome, the docuмent was not rejected.
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JPII's 1983 Code of Canon Law already allows for non-Catholics to receive communion.
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JPII's 1983 Code of Canon Law already allows for non-Catholics to receive communion.
That is only on an ad hoc basis, not as a matter of policy. Pope Francis had now made it very clear that Holy Communion is not for Protestants.
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That is only on an ad hoc basis, not as a matter of policy. Pope Francis had now made it very clear that Holy Communion is not for Protestants.
I guess you missed my post above. The German bishops are publicly denying the report. The Vatican has most certainly not confirmed the report. At the moment, the report is based on unnamed "sources".
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That is only on an ad hoc basis, not as a matter of policy. Pope Francis had now made it very clear that Holy Communion is not for Protestants.
You do realize that (prior to the 1983 Canon Law) non-Catholics weren't allowed to receive communion UNLESS they converted to the Catholic Faith first? No exceptions.
But that's not very ecuмenical...so they changed it.
And it's only a matter of time before they continue to slide further down that heretical, slippery slope.
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I guess you missed my post above. The German bishops are publicly denying the report. The Vatican has most certainly not confirmed the report. At the moment, the report is based on unnamed "sources".
Poche didn't miss it. He just didn't see it.
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As Oster explained in an article published in his own diocesan newspaper, “We wish to receive a clarification as to whether this expansion of the interpretation of grave emergency situations is correct.” It does not seem a “simple” thing to “share the full Catholic understanding of the Eucharist,” while at the same time remaining in another denomination; and “thus to preserve for oneself, at the same time, that confession’s own understanding, let’s say of the Last Supper.” Oster does not see how this inner contradiction could – or should – be preserved of holding two different, incommensurate understandings of Holy Communion at the same time.
Several other prelates, among them Cardinal Walter Brandmüller (https://onepeterfive.com/cardinal-brandmuller-german-bishops-new-wholly-dishonest-ploy/) and Cardinal Paul Josef Cordes (http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-cordes-german-bishops-intercommunion-proposal-not-theologically-so), had raised their voices in opposition to the German Bishops’ Conference and its new push for pastoral novelties with regard to intercommunion.
https://onepeterfive.com/cdf-pope-reject-intercommunion-handout-of-german-bishops-conference/
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Cardinal Gerhard Müller, himself the former Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, also recently insisted (https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/cardinal-mueller-magisterium-is-not-supposed-to-lead-faithful-into-confusio) that the German bishops, with their new handout, should not lead the faithful “into confusion.” He explained that any ecuмenical effort has to lead to a conversion to the Catholic Faith:
There would be only ecuмenical progress if we came closer to the great goal of the unity of Christians in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The precondition for this, however, would be the recognition of the sacramentality of the Church and of the fact that we have no power of disposal over the Sacraments. Here, one would first have to clarify whether bishops’ conferences do not step over their own area of authority in individual cases.
https://onepeterfive.com/cdf-pope-reject-intercommunion-handout-of-german-bishops-conference/
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Update 19 April: According to Kath.net (http://www.kath.net/news/63484), the German Bishops’ Conference denies (https://www.dbk.de/nc/presse/aktuelles/meldung/erklaerung-zur-debatte-um-die-pastorale-handreichung-ueber-konfessionsverschiedene-ehen-und-eine-gemei/detail/) now in a press release the claim that the Vatican has rejected its handout. It states “Reports according to which the handout has been rejected in the Vatican by the Holy Father or some dicasteries, are false.” The German Bishops’ Conference also insists that the finalized pastoral handout concerning intercommunion shall only be further discussed at the next meeting of the bishops’ standing council on 23 April and that it has not yet been sent to Rome. Additionally, Cardinal Reinhard Marx, the head of the German bishops, has now been invited by Pope Francis to meet with him in Rome in order to discuss the matter in person. Moreover, Edward Pentin, Rome Correspondent of the National Catholic Register, now confirms (http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/vatican-rejects-german-bishops-intercommunion-proposal) the original story with his own sources and says that Pope Francis does not wish that this CDF letter be made public.
https://onepeterfive.com/cdf-pope-reject-intercommunion-handout-of-german-bishops-conference/
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Update 19 April: According to Kath.net (http://www.kath.net/news/63484), the German Bishops’ Conference denies (https://www.dbk.de/nc/presse/aktuelles/meldung/erklaerung-zur-debatte-um-die-pastorale-handreichung-ueber-konfessionsverschiedene-ehen-und-eine-gemei/detail/) now in a press release the claim that the Vatican has rejected its handout. It states “Reports according to which the handout has been rejected in the Vatican by the Holy Father or some dicasteries, are false.” The German Bishops’ Conference also insists that the finalized pastoral handout concerning intercommunion shall only be further discussed at the next meeting of the bishops’ standing council on 23 April and that it has not yet been sent to Rome. Additionally, Cardinal Reinhard Marx, the head of the German bishops, has now been invited by Pope Francis to meet with him in Rome in order to discuss the matter in person. Moreover, Edward Pentin, Rome Correspondent of the National Catholic Register, now confirms (http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/vatican-rejects-german-bishops-intercommunion-proposal) the original story with his own sources and says that Pope Francis does not wish that this CDF letter be made public.
https://onepeterfive.com/cdf-pope-reject-intercommunion-handout-of-german-bishops-conference/
So this is saying that NCR confirms the part of their original story that Bergoglio doesn't want the CDF letter made public, but NCR is not confirming the part of their original story that the German Bishops' Conference letter was rejected?
Given what we've seen in the previous few years, it sounds like the original story may have been mostly true. The CDF probably did reject the German Bishops' letter but Bergoglio is entirely supportive so he doesn't want the rejection to be made public until he can make the appropriate changes in personnel in the CDF. Clearly, some lower level flunky wrote a reply before he was completely corrupted. After a few weeks, we'll probably see a letter from Bergoglio to the German bishops saying, essentially, what he told the Argentine bishops earlier--and that will be the letter that is made public and put into the AAS.
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The Vatican confirmed Monday that a delegation of six German bishops and one priest will meet with Vatican officials, including the head of the CDF, later this week to discuss the issue of the reception of the Eucharist by non-Catholic spouses of Catholics.
The meeting will take place May 3 with Archbishop Luis Ladaria Ferrer, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Fr. Hermann Geissler, head of the department’s doctrinal section.
The German delegation, which includes Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich and Freising and Cardinal Rainer Maria Woelki of Cologne, will also meet with Cardinal Kurt Koch, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity and Fr. Markus Graulich, under-secretary of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts.
The meeting takes place following reports, later denied by the German bishops’ conference, that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith had rejected a planned proposal by the conference to publish guidelines permitting non-Catholic spouses of Catholics to receive the Eucharist in some limited circuмstances.
In February, Cardinal Marx, announced that the conference would publish a pastoral handout (https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/german-bishops-promote-intercommunion-of-lutheran-catholic-spouses-17230) for married couples that allows Protestant spouses of Catholics “in individual cases” and “under certain conditions” to receive Holy Communion, provided they “affirm the Catholic faith in the Eucharist.”
The announcement concerned a draft version of the guidelines, which were adopted “after intensive debate” during a Feb. 19-22 general assembly of the German bishops’ conference under the leadership of Cardinal Marx, who is the conference chairman.
The German delegation will also include Bishop Felix Genn of Munster, as well as both the president and vice-president of the conference’s doctrinal commission, Bishop Karl-Heinz Wiesemann of Speyer and Bishop Rudolf Voderholzer of Regensburg.
Bishop Gerhard Feige of Magdeburg, president of the commission for ecuмenism of the German bishops’ conference and Fr. Hans Langendorfer, general secretary of the conference will also take part.
It was reported April 18 by CNA (https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-reportedly-rejects-german-bishops-plan-for-intercommunion-of-spouses-65682) and other media that the CDF had raised objections about the German bishops’ proposal; sources close to the congregation had confirmed this to CNA.
It is unclear whether the Vatican has asked the bishops’ conference to modify the contents of the draft guidelines, whether they have suspended the development of a draft while the matter is considered further, or whether it has been entirely rejected.
Last month, seven German bishops, led by Cardinal Woelki, sent a letter (https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/german-bishops-ask-vatican-for-clarity-on-holy-communion-95834) to the CDF and to the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity asking for clarification on the matter, appending a copy of the drafted guidelines. The signatories did not consult beforehand with Cardinal Marx.
The seven bishops reportedly asked whether the question of Holy Communion for Protestant spouses in interdenominational marriages can be decided on the level of a national bishops' conference, or if rather, "a decision of the Universal Church" is required in the matter.
The letter was also signed by Archbishop Ludwig Schick of Bamberg, Bishop Gregor Hanke of Eichstätt, Bishop Konrad Zdarsa of Augsburg, Bishop Stefan Oster of Passau, Bishop Rudolf Voderholzer of Regensburg, and Bishop Wolfgang Ipolt of Görlitz.
The Code of Canon Law already provides (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2T.HTM) that in the danger of death or if “some other grave necessity urges it,” Catholic ministers licitly administer penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick to Protestants “who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.”
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/german-bishops-to-meet-with-vatican-officials-on-intercommunion-topic-22436
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Yesterday’s crucial meeting (http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/intercommunion-proposal-goes-back-to-german-bishops) went quicker than expected, lasting a little over two hours, but the outcome pleased none of those who took part, and will have far reaching consequences for the Church, sources close to the talks have told the Register.
Cardinal Reinhard Marx, president of the bishops’ conference, arrived at the May 3 meeting in the Holy Office at 4pm, along with two allied bishops and Jesuit Father Hans Langendörfer, secretary of the German bishops’ conference, confidently expecting to be able to influence the proceedings in his favor.
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-mueller-on-intercommunion-meeting-more-clarity-and-courage-needed
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Summoned to the Vatican meeting by the Pope last month, the cardinal archbishop of Munich hoped to win the Pope’s backing, and thereby persuade two opposing bishops and senior Vatican officials to support a highly contentious German bishops’ pastoral proposal to allow Protestant spouses in some cases to receive Holy Communion.
The so-called “pastoral handout,” which German bishops overwhelmingly voted for in February, proposed that a Protestant spouse could receive the Eucharist after having made a “serious examination” of conscience with a priest or another person with pastoral responsibilities, and “affirms the faith of the Catholic Church,” wishes to end “serious spiritual distress,” and has a “longing to satisfy a hunger for the Eucharist.”
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-mueller-on-intercommunion-meeting-more-clarity-and-courage-needed
The best way to end serious spiritual distress and satisfy a hunger for the Eucharist is to convert to the Catholic Faith.
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This makes less than no sense, but the German Church has always been its own thing. The Germans gave the world the operatic, orchestral Masses (like with Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, etc.) which turned the liturgy into a concert while other parts of the world stuck with Gregorian chant and hymns.
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Proponents said it would help to resolve the suffering of some Protestant spouses unable to receive Holy Communion with their Catholic wives or husbands. Critics called it a “rhetorical trick” that wrongly sought to redefine the sacraments as a means of alleviating mental distress and satisfying spiritual needs.
Criticism heightened after seven German bishops wrote to the Vatican March 22 to protest the move (http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/seven-german-bishops-ask-vatican-to-block-intercommunion-proposal), arguing that the proposal is “not right” as it touches on “the faith and unity of the Church which is not subject to a vote,” and asking for four areas to be clarified.
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-mueller-on-intercommunion-meeting-more-clarity-and-courage-needed
The best way to alleviate mental distress and satisfy spiritual needs is to convert. Conversion of the heart will take care of all these things.
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Two of the seven, Cardinal Rainer Woelki of Cologne and Bishop Rudolf Voderholzer of Regensburg, arrived at the May 3 meeting hopeful that, given what many considered to be serious doctrinal flaws in the docuмent — and which reliable sources say was opposed by Benedict XVI — the proposal would be thrown out by the Pope, or completely revised.
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-mueller-on-intercommunion-meeting-more-clarity-and-courage-needed
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But to the surprise of many, neither happened. After both sides made their case, Archbishop Luis Ladaria, prefect of the CDF, relayed to the participants that Pope Francis appreciated the “ecuмenical commitment of the German bishops and asks them to find, in a spirit of ecclesial communion, a unanimous result, if possible.”
In comments to the Register May 4, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, prefect emeritus of the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith, expressed his disappointment with the outcome, saying the statement was “very poor” as it contained “no answer to the central, essential question.” It is not possible, he stressed, to be in “sacramental communion without ecclesial communion.”
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal-mueller-on-intercommunion-meeting-more-clarity-and-courage-needed
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With the approval of Pope Francis, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) has instructed the German bishops’ conference not to publish a policy that would have allowed Protestant spouses of Catholics to receive Communion on a regular basis.
Archbishop Luis Ladaria, the prefect of the CDF, wrote on May 25 to Cardinal Reinhard Marx, the president of the German bishops’ conference, saying that it would be inappropriate for the German bishops to promulgate their proposed policy. The Austrian Catholic web site Kath.net obtained a copy of the archbishop’s letter.
A majority of the German bishops had endorsed the proposal, which would have allowed Protestant spouses to receive the Eucharist more routinely. (Current Church discipline allows for intercommunion only under unusual circuмstances on in cases of “impending grave necessity.”) But a substantial minority had protested and appealed to the Vatican for clarification. After inviting the German bishops to Rome to discuss the issue in May, Pope Francis had urged them to find their own consensus on the question.
In his May 25 latter Archbishop Ladaria (who will be elevated to the college of cardinals later this month) explained that the German bishops should not adopt their own policy because the issue of intercommunion “touches upon the faith of the Church and is relevant for the universal Church.” He observed that the question also has important implications for ecuмenical relations. Finally, he reminded the German bishops that the question of intercommunion is addressed in the Code of Canon Law.
Archbishop Ladaria acknowledged that there are differences of opinion on the interpretation of existing canon law, regarding the circuмstances when intercommunion may be justified. He said that the Vatican is now studying the question, and a “timely clarification” can be expected. For now, he wrote, it “appears opportune to leave to the diocesan bishop the judgment on the existence of a ‘grave and urgent necessity’” that would allow for a Protestant to receive Communion.
Archbishop Ladaria closed his letter by stressing the desire of Pope Francis that the German bishops would maintain “the spirit of episcopal collegiality.”
https://www.catholicculture.org/news/hea...ryid=37169 (https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=37169)
Bottom line the answer is still no.
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For now, he wrote, it “appears opportune to leave to the diocesan bishop the judgment on the existence of a ‘grave and urgent necessity’” that would allow for a Protestant to receive Communion.
Bottom line the answer is still no.
Bottom line is that the answer is that each diocesan bishop allow it but it's just not the right time ("opportune") to issue a formal docuмent.
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Bottom line is that the answer is that each diocesan bishop allow it but it's just not the right time ("opportune") to issue a formal docuмent.
Bottom line the answer is still "no"
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Bottom line the answer is still "no"
You didn't read the docuмent. The answer is not, "no". The answer is, each bishop can do what he wants and it's not the right time to issue a docuмent giving blanket approval.