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Author Topic: The Catholic Church - Trent Horn Misleads Calvinist "Redeemed Zoomer"  (Read 2055 times)

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Offline CatholicChris

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Re: The Catholic Church - Trent Horn Misleads Calvinist "Redeemed Zoomer"
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2024, 06:45:24 AM »
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  • But spiritually, I would say that it's healthy to either greatly dissuade the idea - or include the absolute remoteness of the possibility that a person could be converted in their last moments because per the dogma, there is no hope at all for salvation for those who die outside of the Church - which is where all minds should be focused as regards this dogma.

     


    I totally agree, which is why I said it really shouldn't even be preached on. Also when I speak to heretics, pagans, and others, I don't ever bring up this possibility. There is no point in banking your salvation on a singular grace in the moments of death.

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: The Catholic Church - Trent Horn Misleads Calvinist "Redeemed Zoomer"
    « Reply #16 on: June 18, 2024, 06:51:55 AM »
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  • I'm not fighting that, I straight up agree with you. It should be obvious that anyone who perserves in a false religion unto death goes straight to hell. I just feel like sometimes people deny that a person could even be converted in their last moments.
    I've never heard anyone deny that people can be converted before death in my life. On the other hand most people deny what you correctly call obvious, that non-Catholics all go to Hell. That's what needs to be preached vehemently.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Catholic Church - Trent Horn Misleads Calvinist "Redeemed Zoomer"
    « Reply #17 on: June 18, 2024, 10:46:52 AM »
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  • I've never heard anyone deny that people can be converted before death in my life.

    Nobody denies this, so it's a strawman, and the reason it's used is to very subtly undermine EENS.  "It's possible that this Prot was saved."  But when you push on it, they can retreat to, "Well, we don't know whether he was converted ... unbeknownst to us."  It's used as a fall-back position in case someone is called out on it.

    Question is whether a Prot-as-Prot, who dies as a Prot, can be saved.  Answer is no, not unless they convert first.  BTW, the case of the Prot may or may not have anything to do with BoD as not a few Prots are validly baptized.

    Then of course there's "Anonymous Catholicism" thinking where the Prot could actually be a Catholic without even knowing it himself.