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Author Topic: Comedy Hour with John Salza: A Critical Review of his Interview on Papal  (Read 4993 times)

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Comedy Hour with John Salza: A Critical Review of his Interview on Papal
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 09:15:29 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote
Now isn't that precious. Each Catholic needs to be his own theologian. He must be able to read and write in various languages, especially Latin, and have at his fingertips a virtual library of Church docuмents, a better grasp of theology than the hierarchy, a sharp intellect, and plenty of time to do a lot of studying. This way, if we take Salza's ideas seriously, each Catholic would end up becoming a judge of the Church, of her Magisterium, and even of the Pope.


But that's exactly what ALL Traditional Catholics have done; they had to do a theological analysis of Vatican II and had to determine that it's incompatible with Church teaching.  This particular "argument" doesn't hold any water.


I don't agree with you here, Ladislaus. I am a sedevacantist and I've done a lot of studying, but I did not become the judge of the Church or the Magisterium. I simply am unable, as a rational animal, to assent to two contradictory things at the same time and in the same sense. But Vatican II asks me to do exactly that - assent to that which was previously condemned. So I know it *cannot* be the authority it purports to be.

What am I missing?

Comedy Hour with John Salza: A Critical Review of his Interview on Papal
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2014, 09:29:05 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
Somewhere between the false idea that the Magisterium can lead the entire Church into error and the absurd caricature of the Magisterium made by many sedevacantists that every obiter dictum in any encyclical or allocation must be be assented to as unquestionably true lies the actual truth.

If a teaching is not infallible, then it's theoretically possible that it was WRONG.  That's by very definition.  Never can anyone be forced to give intellectual assent to something that is WRONG or ERRONEOUS.  Period.  God is truth and never requires assent to error.  You guys completely distort the idea that there must be religious submission to the authoritative teaching of the Church on matters that do not have the notes of infallibility to the requirement to intellectually assent to things that happen to be erroneous.  Despite your typical wordsmithing, where you claim that these teachings are not infallible, you are saying IN EFFECT exactly that; you're claiming that these teachings are infallible, because saying otherwise would be to say that the Church could lead souls into error.


You make some sweeping statements here without backing them up. The 'Comedy Hour' article backs up its statements with authoritative sources. What are your sources?

Please address this part from the article:

Quote

The fact that not every magisterial act or docuмent is protected by the gift of infallibility is irrelevant, because the Church is the authoritative Teacher appointed by God, in virtue of which she has the right to command our assent and obedience to all she teaches, to her liturgical rites, her declarations of sainthood, and her disciplinary laws:

Quote from: PiusXI

For the teaching authority of the Church, which in the divine wisdom was constituted on earth in order that revealed doctrines might remain intact for ever, and that they might be brought with ease and security to the knowledge of men, and which is daily exercised through the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops who are in communion with him, has also the office of defining, when it sees fit, any truth with solemn rites and decrees, whenever this is necessary either to oppose the errors or the attacks of heretics, or more clearly and in greater detail to stamp the minds of the faithful with the articles of sacred doctrine which have been explained.

(Pope Pius XI, Encyclical Mortalium Animos, n. 9)



So there we have it. The teaching authority of the Church is exercised daily through the Pope himself and the bishops who are in communion with him. Obviously, this includes infallible as well as non-infallible teachings. The point is that the Church teaches with authority -- even when not infallible -- which by that very fact alone binds the faithful to adhere to her teachings, for the Church's teaching mission comes from Christ Himself.


You've noted your disagreement with this, but you didn't refute it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being a tax attorney, obviously; but there is something wrong with being a tax attorney and contradicting the teaching of what you claim is the legitimate hierarchy and magisterial authority of the Catholic Church.

Though ad hominem arguments are logically fallacious (meaning the person is irrelevant to the argument from a logical perspective), in Catholic polemical discourse, ad hominem is not necessarily wrong:

Quote

It is therefore perfectly proper not only to discredit any book, journal or discourse of the enemy, but it is also proper, in certain cases, even to discredit his person; for in warfare, beyond question, the principal element is the person engaged, as the gunner is the principal factor in an artillery fight and not the cannon, the powder, and the bomb. It is thus lawful, in certain cases, to expose the infamy of a Liberal opponent, to bring his habits into contempt and to drag his name in the mire. Yes, this is permissible, permissible in prose, in verse, in caricature, in a serious vein or in badinage, by every means and method within reach. The only restriction is not to employ a lie in the service of justice. This never.

--"Liberalism is a Sin" by Fr. Sarda y Salvany, chapter 21




God bless you all.


Comedy Hour with John Salza: A Critical Review of his Interview on Papal
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 01:37:01 AM »
Quote from: Matto
One thing that seems strange to me is that many sedevacantists recognize the Novus Ordo hierarchy as the true hierarchhy also.


Who?

Comedy Hour with John Salza: A Critical Review of his Interview on Papal
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 01:39:24 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote
Now isn't that precious. Each Catholic needs to be his own theologian. He must be able to read and write in various languages, especially Latin, and have at his fingertips a virtual library of Church docuмents, a better grasp of theology than the hierarchy, a sharp intellect, and plenty of time to do a lot of studying. This way, if we take Salza's ideas seriously, each Catholic would end up becoming a judge of the Church, of her Magisterium, and even of the Pope.


But that's exactly what ALL Traditional Catholics have done; they had to do a theological analysis of Vatican II and had to determine that it's incompatible with Church teaching. This particular "argument" doesn't hold any water.


They do it in a different manner though, people like Salza and non-sedes. They actually make up their own theology, whereas sedes simply follow what was laid down before.

Comedy Hour with John Salza: A Critical Review of his Interview on Papal
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 01:45:09 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
So the author attacks Salza for being a tax attorney (an ad hominem).  What exactly are the theological credentials of this author?

And of course the "Comedy Hour" title as well as the derogatory picture are extremely uncharitable and uncivil.


He deserves even worse because he is a murderer of souls, a heretic.

If you're going to parade as an "expert" on anything, then you better know what you're talking about.

But Salza doesn't have a clue and is a windbag, like Ferrara and the rest.

So he had it coming.

Quote from: Ladislaus
You didn't write this, did you, LoT?


Of course not, it was novusordowatch.