Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM  (Read 1404 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Neil Obstat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18177
  • Reputation: +8276/-692
  • Gender: Male
Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
« on: June 22, 2012, 08:17:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I realize that this topic is not comfortable for Sede's, due to their disagreement in
    whether the Pope is the pope, or whether the Bishops are bishops. Therefore,
    if we could prescind from that argument, and let's all pretend that the pope to
    whom we refer in this discussion is truly the Pope, regardless of whether one
    actually exists today or not, and the bishops to whom we refer are truly Bishops,
    whether all of them (or any of them!) in fact exist today in the world.

    In other words, to avoid chaos and distraction into an endless rambling over the
    identity of true bishops, perhaps this thread can remain focused on the
    theological principles of the Collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate
    Heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God.

    For those who are unfamiliar with the topic, or for those who are disposed to a
    dispute over the legitimacy of this topic, it may help if I briefly explain the source
    of the principle at hand, the Consecration itself.

    Throughout the "Marian Age," which arguably began at or slightly before Our Lady
    appeared to Venerable Juan Diego in A.D. 1531, as the Virgin of Guadalupe, on
    the day after her own Feast of the Immaculate Conception, Our Blessed Mother
    has been giving us a message of consolation, maternal care and gentle warning:
    sometimes not so gentle! In each of her apparitions approved by the Church, her
    message does not change in its essence, although the specific words she uses to
    convey the message do change, just as the various authentic Rites of the Catholic
    Church do the same thing using a variety of forms.

    In various ones of these approved apparitions, she has hinted at the theme of
    the Consecration here discussed, but it was in the context of the approved
    apparitions of Fatima that it is most clearly pronounced. Some contend that the
    things we are saying came from Our Lady were not part of the apparitions in
    Fatima, Portugal, but "occurred later." The fullness of her explanation did occur
    in later years, and not in Fatima, literally, it is true, but to say that therefore it is
    not part of the Fatima Message is false, for Our Lady clearly foretold in Fatima
    that she would come later to ask for the Consecration of Russia to her
    Immaculate Heart. She did not say how many days or even years later it would
    be.

    But she did come later, as she had promised, after two of the three seers had
    already gone to their eternal reward, dear Jacinta and dear Francesco, and she
    came to dear Lucia, the lone, surviving seer of the apparitions in Fatima. She
    came in the context of a Theophany, the most all-encompassing image in the
    history of the world, in terms of theological depth and mystery, for it entailed the
    Blessed Trinity in plain view -- not as if with "vision clear," but as though
    "through a lens darkly," along with Their most perfect creature, the Blessed Virgin
    Herself. This took place in 1929 in the seaside village of Tuy, just north of Portugal.
    And while Lucia saw this unique vision, the most rare Trinitarian Theophany,
    Our Lady spoke these words in the presence, as it were, of the Most High God:

    ‘‘The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means.

    ‘‘So numerous are the souls which the justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me, that I come to ask for Reparation. Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.’’


    Our attention, therefore, is drawn to this concept of the Consecration because of
    this marvelous experience granted to dear Lucia as a holy religious, living in
    seclusion, away from her native village: living a quiet life of penance and
    reparation. But we do not therefore base our judgment solely on the fact of this
    reported experience of a poor Portugese nun. By the way, Saint Anthony of Padua
    was a poor Portugese friar, and we don't usually cast aspersions on him for that
    fact, do we?

    We can approach discussion of this concept of the Consecration prescinding from
    the report of Lucia, that is, as if it had never happened, so as to see what
    fundamental credibility it has on its own, based on the whole of Revealation, the
    history and teaching of the Church, and sound judgment.

    The article, below, begins with the following introductory words:

    The purpose of this article is to show that a consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is of a theological necessity or at least a theological convenience, even if Heaven had never mentioned it. Therefore, in this article and for the sake of argument, we pretend that Our Lady never appeared at Fatima and that there was never a message.

    Consequently we have to examine the following questions:

    1.    Why a consecration?

    2.    Why to Our Lady?

    3.    Why to Her Immaculate Heart?

    4.    Why Russia?

    5.    Why not just by the Pope, but by all bishops?



    I have skipped the first part and have gone directly to the second part, for it
    seems to me opportune to do so at this time. If there is any interest, we can
    most certainly return to the first part in due course...............



    2. The Necessity of a Consecration to Our Lady


           Who is God, is it Father, Son and Holy Spirit, or is it Our Lady? Doesn’t God, Holy Scripture, and Church Tradition require a consecration to God Himself?

           Yes, definitely. It would certainly be less than appropriate to consecrate a church or an altar stone as such, to anyone, but to God Himself. A mere rock used as a grave for human bones, even the holy bones of holy martyrs, must be set apart, sanctified, dedicated and surrendered entirely to God by consecration, in order to be worthy, as an altar stone, for the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The same is analogically true for a church and, ultimately, for the members of the priesthood.

           But these consecrations, just like the consecration of Baptismal Water, are necessary to render some matter worthy of the Holy One, by sanctification. An altar stone is not consecrated to convey graces, but to allow to take place upon it the celebration of the sacrament such that the sacrament will convey the most potent sacramental graces. The altar stone does not convey the graces, but its consecration facilitates them. Neither an altar stone nor Baptismal Water are consecrated for the purpose of atonement in the strict sense, but for the purification needed to render the matter worthy of the proper sacrament.

           Are all consecrations only to God? Ultimately, yes, but not always exclusively. God rewards the saints with a share of His Glory. The Medal of St. Benedict is consecrated in honor of St. Benedict asking for his intercession. It is consecrated to God Almighty, but in honor of St. Benedict.

           God’s Holy Will to share His Glory with all the Saints is firmly established in the Tradition of the Church:

           An altar stone must not be consecrated unless it properly contains the relics of martyrs; a church is usually dedicated to a saint; most feasts in the Roman Calendar are of saints; a Novena may be said equally well to a saint, or for Christmas, or for the Coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (which is the oldest of all Novenae); a nun may be consecrated as a Sister of the Sacred Heart as much as she could be as a Sister of St. Joseph; during the Council of Trent three books were placed on the altar: the Bible, the Missal and the Summa Theologiae, written by a "mere" saint, but the Doctor Angelicus, the Doctor Communis, the Doctor Doctorum. Thus, one of the most fruitful gatherings of the bishops: one of the most inspired Councils ever, was thus dedicated and consecrated: to God in His Holy Writ, to the Church in Her Missal, and to a little, fat saint in his huge book containing at least four mistakes, but written in a glowing love incomprehensible for most of us.

           Thus, God wanted the consecration not exclusively directed to His Perfection and Divinity (somewhat lessened by St. Jerome in the Vulgate), much less to the mistakes of Popes in the Proprium of the Mass (the Canon is without errors or faults!!!), and still less to the intellectual shortcomings of the magnificent, fat saint in his magnificent, fat book, called the Summa Theologiae. It can easily be seen that God wanted the Fathers of Trent to share in these three books’ inspiration, wisdom, information and insights, but foremost in the Divine Love shared with saints like St. Jerome, St. Gregory the Great, and St. Thomas Aquinas.

           We will see in the next chapter how important this consideration is. Hope will be satisfied, Faith will be superceded, Love will remain. (Coming in part 3: Why to her Immaculate Heart?)

           While consecration, generally speaking, is an act of Faith, set in Hope, it must be caused by Love, be it in obedience (which is a kind of love), or in choosing Love itself. Charity loves "thy neighbor" in obedience, friendship loves by choice. St. Thomas says: "Of all the things that pertain to love, friendship is the most perfect" (Summa Contra Gentiles, III, d. 27, q.2, 1).

           We have seen that God wants His Glory for our sake, not for Himself, no matter how infinitely it is due to Him. His perfect Friendship is the purpose of all consecration. "Vos autem dixi amicos, but I have called you friends," said He to the disciples (John 15:15), and friends we are, when consecrated by dedication, atonement and especially obedience to His Will (cf. John 15:13).

           The Church, in Her venerable Tradition of countless canonizations of saints, in Her benevolent protection of their cults, and in Her consecrations in their honor, illustrates and witnesses the firm will of Christ to share His Glory and merits with the ones consecrated to Him.

           The conclusion is inevitable that His Mother not only is part of this sharing, but, being in the very first place of all saints ever, she is one to Whom we may consecrate. Her merits and role in the History of Salvation are praised and exalted in Holy Scripture as well as in Church Tradition, in the writings of the saints, and in an uninterrupted twenty centuries of true devotion and cultus. So exalted is (or was) Her position among the faithful, that G.K. Chesterton thankfully reminded us of the wisdom of the Church that always knew to emphasize the distinction between the God-Man Himself and a perfect human being (The New Jerusalem, last chapter).

           The occasional exaggeration can be benevolently considered as comprehensible in the light of the Blessed Virgin’s position as Mother of God, Queen of all Martyrs, Queen of Heaven, Queen of the Angels, and Mediatrix of All Graces.

           Let the quotations of a few saints suffice as a substitute for all the countless and often deep volumes written about Her glory:

            ... in the first place the memory of the glorious ever Virgin Mary, Mother of
            Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ (Canon Missae); The humanity of Christ
            inasmuch as it is united to God, and the created beatitude inasmuch        
            as it is fruition of God, and the Blessed Virgin inasmuch as She is
            Mother of God, in a way have infinite dignity out of the infinite good, which
            is God (Summa Theologiae, I, q.25, a.6, ad 4), and from this part        
            cannot be better (Summa Theologiae, III, q.7, a.12, ad 2); To be the Mother
            of God is the utmost grace conferable to a mere creature. The same is
            where God cannot do more. God can make a bigger world or a greater
            heaven, but more than a Mother of God He cannot make (St. Bonaventura).

           Our Lady’s function in the economy of salvation is not merely passive, She is not merely used by God; She devoted, with all of Her heart and not lessened by any sin, all of Her life and Herself completely as the ancilla Domini to God and His Divine Son in the mystery of the Redemption. She is, as St. Irenaeus says, the cause of salvation. St. Epiphanius calls Her the "Mother of the Living," and She is indeed our mother in the order of grace, because She is the GRATIA PLENA, full of grace, and the Mediatrix of All Graces:

           From the time that the Virgin Mother conceived the Word of God in Her
           womb ... She obtained jurisdiction in all temporal processions of the Holy
           Spirit; so that no creature obtained any grace from God, unless according to
           His pious Mother’s dispensation (St. Bernardine of Siena).

           All consecrations for the purpose of obtaining graces must, therefore, be directed towards Our Lady, inasmuch as She is the Mediatrix of All Graces!




    Now the above, as a theological opinion, seems to place a lot of its foundation
    on the principle of Our Lady as Mediatrix of grace. There have been reports for
    many years now, of this title for Our Lady being moved toward the forefront of
    Papal acts, but the news seems to wane and wax over the years, with no firm
    progress in view. It seems to me that it would make sense for the fulfillment
    of Our Lady's request, for the Collegial Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate
    Heart, to be made at the same time as the dogmatic definition of Mary Mediatrix,
    or, failing that, it seems likely that one would occur as a direct consequence after
    the other. I cannot imagine, however, which would more likely come first, for they
    are so closely related, that either one, coming first, would likely result in the other
    happening as a consequence. That is to say, if they do not both happen on the
    same day and in the same setting, the second one would likely follow the first by
    no more than a few weeks' time.

    IMHO!
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #1 on: June 27, 2012, 01:52:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Five days is a long time for no replies.

    Is it possible that no one on CathInfo cares about the Consecration?
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 01:53:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This one is even stronger:


    Quote from: [url=http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Very-important-letter-Must-Read
    Quo Vadis Petre[/url]]I posted this on Consolation's forum. It is worth repeating:

    A TIME-CAPSULE LETTER TO A YOUNG FRIEND

    By
    Brother Saul

    ...

    If I could only be a fly on the wall to what has transpired over the last 20 years I would make a fortune as a writer of novels. But I am saddened to say that all of it, at least, is already determined by the providential finger of God. Let me explain a bit about the past and my present so you will better understand your time which is my future:

    The conflict of Christ against the Jєωs so central to the Gospels is what history (towards its conclusion) will experience on a worldwide scale. As a Christian you should know your enemy the devil and his minions the Jєωs. The Jєω is the original master revolutionary. It was the Jєω who seduced Judas to betray Christ, who murdered the Son of God, who flattered the first Pope St Peter to deny the Lord for their craven human respect, who hounded the Apostles with an insane hatred throughout the ancient world to their martyrdoms, who fomented the cruel Roman persecutions against the primitive Christian Church, who incubated Gnosticism the first counter-Christian protest movement from their perverted occult system of Cabala, who fabricated the Mohammedan cult and who have been behind every secret and subversive attack on the City of God ever since. And all because by the time of the coming of their own Messias Jesus Christ, they had started to believe more in their own self-important status as “the holy people” than in God and His promised redeemer. A monumental case of the devil’s pride no less, and one expressed by the blackest of his crimes - deicide. To redress the affront caused by the Son of God overlooking the angel’s own perceived brilliance and choosing instead to set up His throne of grace united to a crass mortal human nature lower than his own. The scandal of the hypostatic union of God and man, which neither the devil nor his minions the Jєωs could accept. Christianity would remain the thorn in their side, the embarrassing truth of their deicide, which for the Jєω must be wiped out from living memory at all cost before they can have their “Messianic Reign” and their Jєωιѕн King who the Christians call Antichrist.

    But with the ascent of the Catholic Church, the conversion of the Emperor Constantine and the domination of the Holy Roman Empire the hand of God held them back for a thousand years. Non serviam! they have cried for a millennium like their father the devil. They will not serve. Ever since their occultic self-deification philosophy of Cabala gained prominence among certain nobles and inspired the European Renaissance their banking dynasties have risen to financial domination of the West by fomenting wars between Christian nations and financing both sides. With this hold over Crown and Tiara they have plotted and schemed for hundreds of years in their ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic workshops to demolish the Christian Old World Order through their failsafe two phase process of the alchemists known as solve et coagula which works to breakdown offensive institutions into their parts and reassemble them in a preferred bastard form. One made in their own image.

    “The Process” as it is known to the Jєωιѕн “social engineers” behind the scenes is to “gentilize” basify or corrupt the Christian West. In other words the leveling all temporal and religious authority belonging to the Old World Order other than their own (e.g. The European Catholic Monarchs, The Catholic Church, Christian Institutions, economic subsidiarity etc), to thoroughly de-Christianize and corrupt the west, break down its moral resistance, precipitate a social and economic collapse, seize power and enslave the gentiles under their Noahide Laws, exalt themselves as the “Holy People” for their messianic reign and their Jєωιѕн King Rex Mundi (antichrist) who will usher in the last and greatest persecution of Christians holding on to their faith. Well at least that’s the 60 second version.

    For the last five hundred years then Phase 1 of the Process has been the Spiritual, Moral, Social, Political and Economic Breakdown of the Christian West (The “gentilisation” of the west). By ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic subterfuge Christians have been induced to throw off the “shackles of God’s laws” for freedom and independence through all these spheres starting with the Protestant Reformation 1517 which rejected Christ’s Church and hence His authority, but not Christ or God (Spiritual Liberalism –“Every Man is his own Pope” Luther was advised and financed by Jєωs), The Masonic Enlightenment 1717 which rejected the Church and Christ but not God (Intellectual liberalism –“My mind does not submit to external authority” Voltaire, Rousseau and Kant were all ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic philosophers), The French Revolution 1789 (Political Liberalism “I will not be governed by God’s laws but by man’s” –the revolution was financed by Jєωιѕн money and the Jacobin Club protagonists were ʝʊdɛօ-Masons). The climax of these ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic revolutions was the Bolshevik Communist revolution of Czarist Russia in 1917 which rejected the Church, Christ and God and was a small scale foretaste of the end-result to all these errors.

    By now, the net effect of these subversive movements in the formerly Christian West is unadulterated, universal Liberalism in every area of human life. Above all else man’s liberty is all important because his so-called new found “dignity” supposedly gives him inalienable moral rights even above God’s rights. The 20th century then finds itself in a state of complete spiritual bankruptcy and moral corruption as planned by the revolutionaries. The Industrial Revolution took dad away from the family, The sɛҳuąƖ Revolution took man away from marriage, The Women’s Liberation Movement took mom away from the family, Abortion took man away from procreation, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Revolution took man away from woman, The Euthanasia bill took the weak away from the strong, The children’s rights movement took the children away from the family into state care etc. All divinely instituted forms of Christian authority like the Catholic monarchs, The family and father as the head of the family, and now even the subversion of the papacy itself have or are being been levelled. Smash, conquer, trample the Christian Old World Order! Instead decadence, hedonism and nihilism reign supreme now with irreligion, satanic cults, pornography, fornication, contraception, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, abortion, cloning, drugs, ѕυιcιdє, euthanasia, all purchased at the price of liberation from God’s laws.

    It is in the present age then that the moral breakdown of the west is being used to usher in Phase II of The Process, which is its “redemption,” or should we say, enslavement by the International nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr. This New Age Movement is a piece of “Communist Worker’s Paradise Propaganda” designed to entice the leaders of the west to finally throw their crowns, treasuries, and religions at the feet of shadowy Internationalists to be delivered from engineered epidemics of poverty, terrorism, human rights violations and religious wars, into the Social Utopian Age of Aquarius of peace, tolerance and brotherhood. An Age of Aquarius where everyone has enough food, drink, shelter, medicine, and luxuries and all religious differences have been set-aside for the One World Religion of Universal Brotherhood. In fact the ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic governments sitting on the U.N. are only using the New Age Movement’s aims of “International Friendship”, disarmament, pacifism and political and religious centralisation to spearhead the process of Sovietisation until the west is disarmed, dependent on a World Food Authority, Central Bank, Police Force and Education System. Then once weakened and governed centrally the levers of power are handed over from the New Age of International Socialism to the slavery of Communism under the Jєωιѕн Noahide system where everyone lives under the U.N.’s seven Noahide Laws prescribed for Gentile Nations and where Christianity is deemed idolatry and punishable by decapitation. This is the real inheritance man can expect from the “Spiritual” Age of Aquarius.

    Even this New Age “Spirituality” of Religious Liberty and Equality and Fraternity is designed to flatten and homogenise all religions into the cult of Man, which is nothing less than the base materialism of Jєωιѕн Communism. All Religions arise from the same primitive cosmic humanistic revelation we are told. God is not a transcendent person but merely an evolutionary force in the Universe residing in man’s sɛҳuąƖ powers at the base of his unconscious mind (The “Cosmic Christ” or “kundalini”). We will not be saved or redeemed by the blood of Christ (who was merely a misunderstood wise man who didn’t make it) but must save ourselves with the secret knowledge (“Gnosis” from the Gnostics) they say he tried to teach. Instead we must use psychotechnologies (Like Mantras, Yoga, Tantra, Psychedelic drugs, Alchemy, Visualization techniques) to still the conscious mind to the awakening of kundalini, annihilate the deforming effects of the ego-identity (like reason, free will and identity) to become at one with the natural rhythm of this cosmic force beyond. Only then can we cross the perceptual abyss of “separation” from the “divine” and join the evolutionary group mind. This is the New Age Cover story. The net effect of this self-deification is actually nothing less than the cult of Man (Atheistic Humanism) where man is placed on the altar instead of God. One where there is no supernatural God above the created world and Man is not fallen into a disordered state of sinfulness. One where the only sin is ignorance to enlightenment or “at-oneness” caused by division, separation and alterity to the Universal Brotherhood of Man. There is no God, no afterlife and hence no sin. So there is no need for a Redeemer. Man is just a hairless monkey who needs to unrepress all his instincts and be at one with the natural world around him. We only go around once they tell us, so take your share now and indulge your passions while you can. The real objective to the New Age Religious Propaganda then is to level Christianity by making an omlette of it with all false religions into the Cult of Man and secondly to depersonalize man with the new mysticism into a passive responder to his environment like a base animal or more likely a second class citizen (Goyim) in preparation for the dictatorship of “The Holy People”

    There is no better example of the Tripartite Motto of the ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic “Fraternity, Equality and Liberty” at work than with their attempted subversion of Christ’s Catholic Church during this, phase II of “The Process.” For She was hijacked and infiltrated by the ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic lodge at the notorious Second Vatican Council and is destined to be leveled and recast in the image of the beast. To be brought low from her exalted state of Christ’s own mystical body, His chaste modest bride to that of the Apocalyptic harlot who fornicates with every worldly and religious error in the name of the new religion of universal brotherhood (Fraternity), democracy (Equality) and human rights (Liberty). Meanwhile she has become the outright mouthpiece to the ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic United Nations principles of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr like “international friendship”, disarmament, pacifism, and the globalization of political and economic centralization. She preaches world peace (at the expense of religious truth), social justice (at the expense of salvation of the soul), human rights and human dignity (at the expense of the 10 Commandments), Religious Freedom (at the expense of Loyalty to God), Tolerance for all religions (at the expense of evangelization) etc. She is being made into none other the false prophet who promotes the U.N.’s cult of man to the Gentiles and the тαℓмυdic Socialist Propaganda of the Jєωs and their Messias Antichrist as the “Holy People” and “Saviour of Mankind”

    But Catholic prophecy tells us they wont succeed. At least not yet. Before the final tribulation and the revelation of antichrist their world Communist revolution to demolish the old Christian world order must try and fail and be humiliated by a glorious God-sent renaissance of the holy Roman Catholic empire. This is prophesied by many Catholic visionaries, seers and mystics to gather momentum in the first few decades of the 21st Century. By now then Schizzy (2026) you may have witnessed the European cινιℓ ωαrs, the great schism of the Catholic Church, the invasion of the Russians, Prussians and Muslims into Europe, the Noahide Communist revolution, the three days of darkness, the rise of the great European monarch and the miraculous election of the angelic Pope, the re-Christianization of the world and possibly even some of the Marian era of peace foretold by the Blessed Virgin Mary to the three shepherd Children of Fatima in the year 1917 when she came to warn the Church of the impending errors of Communism (the year the Communist Revolution broke out in Czarist Russia). You will also have felt the power and intrigues of the Jєωιѕн Nation grow on the world stage in preparation for the coming of their false Messiah, Antichrist.

    So I leave you now perhaps in greater clarification of recent events or if not perhaps in greater preparation for events still yet to come.

    Remember one thing. Life is a pilgrimage. We are only here for 3 score and ten years. So don’t get to attached to it. Certainly don’t get seduced, diverted or distracted by the attractive glitter, lights and glamour of the stalls along the roadside. Set your face like flint, take up your cross and ascend your Calvary where, if you climb the ropes of grace thrown down to you from heaven, you will win your crown at its summit. God has given us His laws to be our directions to the Heavenly afterlife and His own Body and Blood in the Sacrifice of the Mass to do it under His strength. Have courage and faith then and know that if you lean out from this lofty precipice, that the warm wind of God’s providence will be there to support you always.

    I entrust you to the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts of Jesus and his Virgin Mother Mary in this, the hour of their triumph on earth.

    God Bless +

    Brother Saul.[/size]
    _____________________
    A Time-Capsule Letter to a Young Friend

    My Comment:
    I want people to understand that "Jєωs" means here the Jєωιѕн leaders and those who faithfully follow their holy book.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline songbird

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4670
    • Reputation: +1765/-353
    • Gender: Female
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 04:07:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'll take a bird's eye view of this.  Hm?  My question is, why did not the consecration take place?  Maybe because the hierarchy is out of sanctifying grace.  Maybe there is no intent in the heart as well?  Now, why Russia?  Maybe because russia is being used as an instrument to bring evil into the world.  Now I grant you, we have always had evil before this. But bolshevik is a systematic way  for a minority to become a majority to take over nations!  Our Lady was given insight at the presentation.  There is a special bond with Her and Christ.  Their hearts are meant to be as one.  At Vat. II some people were hoping for a true council and were hoping for a new dogma that Our Lady is mediatrix. It never happened.  At Vat. II she wasn't even put on the back-burner, she was tossed out!  She would be in the way of modernism and ecuмenism and offensive to the creating of a One world Order, New Order. And Fatima< that was a name of a Islam princess that converted to catholicism.  So, I am doing what Our Lady asked of us to do.  We can't know everything, but what we need to know to save our souls is enough and we have that, until the Precious Blood is no longer with us!!  That is in Chapter 12 of Daniel and we should do as we were commanded by Our Lord and asked of us By OUr Lady.

    Offline Raoul76

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4803
    • Reputation: +2007/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 09:36:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Neil Obstat said:
    Quote
    I realize that this topic is not comfortable for Sede's, due to their disagreement in
    whether the Pope is the pope, or whether the Bishops are bishops. Therefore,
    if we could prescind from that argument...


    Why would anyone want to prescind from reality? I think a bit too much of that has been going on.

    If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts a-hoppin'. There is my answer. There is no Pope so the consecration of Russia cannot take place.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Roman55

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 276
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 09:46:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Neil Obstat said:
    Quote
    I realize that this topic is not comfortable for Sede's, due to their disagreement in
    whether the Pope is the pope, or whether the Bishops are bishops. Therefore,
    if we could prescind from that argument...


    Why would anyone want to prescind from reality? I think a bit too much of that has been going on.

    If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts a-hoppin'. There is my answer. There is no Pope so the consecration of Russia cannot take place.


    I agree.  A miracle Pope, or according to St. Malachi, Peter the Roman, or the last Pope.  

    Offline Raoul76

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4803
    • Reputation: +2007/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 11:19:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like it would never be done. It will be done by the Angelic Pastor, most of the world will convert at that time, including Russia. However the world will be significantly smaller in population at that point.

    I'm not sure about the St. Malachi thing.  Something about it makes me edgy.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 04:35:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: songbird
    I'll take a bird's eye view of this.  Hm?  My question is, why did not the consecration take place?  Maybe because the hierarchy is out of sanctifying grace.  Maybe there is no intent in the heart as well?  Now, why Russia?  Maybe because russia is being used as an instrument to bring evil into the world.  Now I grant you, we have always had evil before this. But bolshevik is a systematic way  for a minority to become a majority to take over nations!  Our Lady was given insight at the presentation.  There is a special bond with Her and Christ.  Their hearts are meant to be as one.  At Vat. II some people were hoping for a true council and were hoping for a new dogma that Our Lady is mediatrix. It never happened.  At Vat. II she wasn't even put on the back-burner, she was tossed out!  


    She did get passing mention, but the original schemas had an entire docuмent
    devoted to her alone, and that was tossed out.

    Quote
    She would be in the way of modernism and ecuмenism and offensive to the creating of a One world Order, New Order. And Fatima< that was a name of a Islam princess that converted to catholicism.  So, I am doing what Our Lady asked of us to do.  We can't know everything, but what we need to know to save our souls is enough and we have that, until the Precious Blood is no longer with us!!  That is in Chapter 12 of Daniel and we should do as we were commanded by Our Lord and asked of us By OUr Lady.


    If there were enough Catholics in the world praying the daily Rosary and making
    their own consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, then there would be more
    graces for the Pope and bishops to make the Consecration. As it is, they appear to
    be drifting away, and humanly speaking, it looks quite impossible. "But he that shall
    persevere to the end, he shall be saved" (Matt. xxiv. 13).

    Our Lady said the Pope would do it, but "it will be late."

    Talk about "late" -- this was just the 95th anniversary of the Third Secret, July 13th.





    What's going to happen before the Consecration?
    We've already had Vatican II and a series of backwards popes
    ("progressive" means backward under Diabolical Disorientation)...

    the European cινιℓ ωαrs?

    the great schism of the Catholic Church?

    the invasion of the Russians, Prussians and Muslims into Europe?

    the Noahide Communist revolution?

    the three days of darkness?

    the rise of the great European monarch and the miraculous election of the angelic Pope?

    the re-Christianization of the world?

    some of the Marian era of peace foretold by the Blessed Virgin Mary to the three shepherd Children of Fatima in the year 1917 when she came to warn the Church of the impending errors of Communism (the year the Communist Revolution broke out in Czarist Russia)?

    the power and intrigues of the Jєωιѕн Nation growing on the world stage in preparation for the coming of their false Messiah, Antichrist?
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 05:10:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • ............. First things first: here's part I ....................





         The purpose of this article is to show that a consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is of a theological necessity or at least a theological convenience, even if Heaven had never mentioned it. Therefore, in this article and for the sake of argument we pretend that Our Lady never appeared at Fatima and that there was never a message.

    Consequently we have to examine the following questions:

        Why a consecration?

        Why to Our Lady?

        Why to Her Immaculate Heart?

        Why Russia?

        Why not just by the Pope, but by all bishops?



    1. The Purpose and Necessity of Consecration
    (Why a consecration?)


           The word "consecration" is derived from the Latin word consecrare and in the times of Cicero it meant a dedication to the service of a god, and — in a derived meaning — to devote, to make holy.

           In Christian times the meaning was deepened and extended at the same time. To consecrate now means to:

    (1) Sanctify, hallow, recognize something as holy.

    (2) Dedicate or consecrate a person to God, devote one’s life and
    prerogatives to the service of God.

    (3) Set some person or thing apart as sacred or dedicated to
    sacred things.

    (4) Administer, perform the ceremonies of consecration.

    (5) Consecrate, exercise the power conferred on a priest at
    ordination by changing bread and wine into the Body and Blood
    of Christ at the consecration of Mass.

           The third meaning, in a definition by St. Thomas Aquinas, is the most important for our consideration. As St. Thomas explains in his Commentary on the Sentences of Petrus Lombardus: "For whatever eminence of state the sanctification will be given, because there, a special help of grace is necessary, as in the consecration of kings, monks, and nuns ..."

           Consecration as such has been required by God many times in Holy Scripture, as in the consecration of Joshua:

               So the Lord said to Moses, "Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the adventurous spirit and lay your hand on him. Have him stand before Eleazar the priest and the entire assembly and commission him in their presence. Give him some of your authority so the whole Israelite community will obey him. He is to stand before Eleazar the priest, who will obtain decisions for him by inquiring of the Urim before the Lord. At his command he and the entire community of the Israelites will go out, and at his command they will come in". Moses did as the Lord commanded him. He took Joshua and had him stand before Eleazar the priest and the whole assembly. Then he laid his hands on him and commissioned him, as the Lord instructed through Moses (Num. 27:18-23).

           And Joshua told the people: "Consecrate yourselves, for tomorrow the Lord will do amazing things among you" (Jos. 3:5). In order to obtain a petitioned extraordinary grace, the Lord prescribes consecration:

               Tell the people: "Consecrate yourselves in preparation for tomorrow, when you will eat meat. The Lord heard you when you wailed: ‘If only we had meat to eat. We were better off in Egypt!’ Now the Lord will give you meat and you will eat it" (Num. 11: 18).

           What is consecrated is set apart, it is holy, and it is set apart and sanctified for a specific purpose:

               Moses said to the Lord, "The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, ‘Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy’ (Ex. 19:23). ‘I am the Lord your God, consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy’ (Lev. 11:44). And the Lord said to Moses, ‘Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes’ ... After Moses had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them and they washed their clothes (Ex. 19:10, 14). He has declared that He will set you in praise, fame and honor high above all the nations He has made and that you will be a people holy to the Lord your God, as He promised (Deut. 26:19).

           The concept of setting one apart from all the rest is a fundamental precept of the Mosaic Law:

               Set apart for the Lord your God every firstborn male of your herds and flocks. Do not put the firstborn of your oxen to work, and do not shear the firstborn of your sheep. (Deut. 15:19). Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them (Ex. 19:22).

           The people have been set apart and consecrated, yet the priests are to be further set apart and consecrated for their specific mission which they do not share with the common people:

               In this way you are to set the Levites apart from the other Israelites, and the Levites will be mine (Num. 8:14). Isn’t it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the rest of the Israelite community and brought you near Himself to do the work at the Lord’s tabernacle and to stand before the community and minister to them? (Num. 16:9)

           Any consecration is specific. As it is not sufficient to consecrate the world as a whole to have Russia, Austria or any other country consecrated, it is not sufficient to have the people of Israel consecrated, it suffices even not to have the Levites consecrated, the individual must be consecrated namely, as we can see in the example of Aaron:

               "And thou shalt speak to all the wise of heart, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron’s vestments, in which he being consecrated may minister to me ... And Aaron shall bear the iniquities of those things which the children of Israel have offered and sanctified, in all their gifts and offerings. … And with all these things thou shalt vest Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him. And thou shalt consecrate the hands of them all, and shall sanctify them, and they may do the office of priesthood unto me." (Ex. 28:3, 38, 41)

           It is important to understand that a consecration renders something or someone acceptable to God, as the child becomes acceptable through baptism and the baptized is set apart at the ordination to the Sacred Priesthood.

           A consecration is not done in any vague or haphazard manner, but it has to be celebrated according to detailed instructions, as the 29th chapter of the book of Exodus shows in 34 sentences. Similar instructions can be found in other books of the Pentateuch. For the last of our questions it will be important to understand that a consecration has to follow a solemn rite: There is a difference in graces granted for wearing a medal cursorily blessed by a mere sign of the cross or a Medal of St. Benedict, consecrated by a Benedictine equipped with faculties, Ritual and Holy Water!

           The purpose of consecration is also atonement:

               Moses slaughtered the bull and took some of the blood, and with his finger he put it on all the horns of the altar to purify the altar. He poured out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. So he consecrated it to make atonement for it (Lev. 8:15). They are to eat these offerings by which atonement was made for their ordination and consecration. But no one else may eat them, because they are sacred (Ex. 29:33). For seven days make atonement for the altar and consecrate it. Then the altar will be most holy, and whatever touches it will be holy (Ex. 29:37). "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed My covenant which I commanded them. And they have even taken some of the things under the ban and have both stolen and deceived. Moreover, they have also put them among their own things. Therefore the sons of Israel cannot stand before their enemies, they turn their backs before their enemies, for they have become accursed. I will not be with you anymore unless you destroy the things under the ban from your midst. Rise up! Consecrate the people and say, ‘Consecrate yourselves for tomorrow, for thus the Lord, the God of Israel has said’: There are things under the ban in your midst, O Israel. You cannot stand before your enemies until you have removed the things under the ban from your midst." (Joshua 7:11-13)

           The final purpose of all creation and, therefore, also of consecration is the greater Glory of God: "... there also I will meet with the Israelites, and the place will be consecrated by My glory" (Ex. 29:43). God requires His glory not for Himself, but because of us, as St. Thomas says (Summa Theologiae, II-II, q.132, a. 1, ad.1).

           Whatever is consecrated, belongs to God, unless it is desecrated:

               And the Lord said to him, "I have heard your prayer and your supplication, which you have made before Me; I have consecrated this house which you have built by putting My name there forever, and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually" (3 Kings 9:3). Any consecration is indelible, remaining in the subject (Summa Theologiae, II-II, q.39, a.3). The consecration of a church must not be repeated, unless burnt down, or polluted by blood or seed (Summa Theologiae, III, q.83, a.3, ad 3). Therefore if a man cleanses himself from these things he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work (2 Tim. 2:21).

           The entire history of the Church and her liturgical customs are definite proof of the necessity of consecration:

           While a chapel may be blessed, the altar stone and the sacred vessels have to be consecrated. A church has to be consecrated in addition to the altar. A bishop is consecrated, a priest, a monk, a nun, and a virgin. Certain medals and holy objects have to be consecrated and until the reform of 1949 the palms on Palm Sunday and the Easter Candle were consecrated with consecratorial prefaces.

           Whenever something is desecrated, it has to be made holy again by reconsecration. This is also true for ourselves as sinners who are - in a way - reconsecrated by the Sacraments if fallen into the state of mortal sin.

           For the scope of this article the concept of consecration as atonement will be of utmost importance.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline songbird

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4670
    • Reputation: +1765/-353
    • Gender: Female
    Collegial Consecration of Russia to the IHM
    « Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 07:29:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Bishops and Pope are not drifting away.  They just are!  And have been for decades!  Where are they?  With communism/marxist.  That is why they can not or will not consecrate.  Who can who has not intention to.  We also need the Precious Blood and the sacraments are drifting away!