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Author Topic: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"  (Read 4401 times)

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Offline drphil

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CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
« on: March 09, 2025, 04:04:07 PM »
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  • I saw a post on here from about 10 years ago where many were claiming the CMRI were schismatics. Has that opinion changed? Not an opinion i would have expected from this forum. 

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #1 on: March 09, 2025, 04:44:34 PM »
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  • There are very few opinions that are too bizarre or absurd that you won't find someone espousing them here at one time or another. :trollface:


    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #2 on: March 09, 2025, 04:58:09 PM »
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  • For rejecting heretic antipopes?

    Schismatic?

    The only thing schismatic is the bogus Ordo antichurch 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #3 on: March 09, 2025, 05:05:19 PM »
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  • Along the lines of the old adage where "opinions are like ..., where everyone has one", I'm sure there are posters here right now who consider sedevacantists schismatics.  We occasionally get posters who consider all Traditional Catholics schismatics and who sneak on here in "disguise" to troll and disrupt the forum.  So anything could have been posted along those lines at any time.

    Now, there's another angle on the CMRI from the SSPV et al. where they claim that they're schismatic because their original founder, +Schuckhardt, received ordination and consecration from an Old ROMAN Catholic, Daniel Brown.  That is such a mendacious position that I largely lost any respect I had for this group since Canon Law clearly states that the penalty for receiving orders from a schismatic is SUSPENSION.  In other words, you don't become a schismatic for getting Orders from a schismatic ... it's a grave sin and you incur suspension.  Nevertheless, given the state of crisis in the Church, I don't think those provisions would even apply.  Recall that this happened before the SSPX had been heard of and before the +Thuc line bishops were anything ... this was 1971, and they were in fact the very first Catholics to start questioning the legitimacy of Montini.  But worst case, Schukhardt would be suspended and this absolutely does NOT make the CMRI Old Catholic schismatics.  CMRI had one elderly priest who was providing some Sacraments to them, and they were legitimately concerned that they'd lose access to the Sacraments once he passed away, since, as mentioned, there was no SSPX yet, no +Thuc line bishops, nothing ... just pockets of individual priests here and there.  Of course, Brown was an Old ROMAN Catholic ... but most Trads, including clergy, don't know the difference.  So, the Old ROMAN Catholics split off from the Utrecht group precisely when and because the latter rejected Vatican I and papal infallibility.  So they did NOT follow them into the heretical positions of the Old Catholics.  Their canonical irregularity stemmed from the fact that the See of Utrecht appealed to some agreement they had with Rome to confer Orders without papal approval, whereas Rome denied it.  So, in this day and age, the remaining Old ROMAN Catholics out there, including one Bishop Meikle ... they're in no different a situation of canonical irregularity than any Traditional Catholic might be.

    But, anyway ... in the WORST CASE, the CMRI were not Old Catholic schismatics as the SSPV have continued to allege.  Now, when +Schuckhardt went nuts after having gotten addicted to prescription pain killers (originally for a legitimate reason) and started at least privately referring to himself as Pope, and engaged in some vices against purity and contrary to nature, the other CMRI priests rebelled and kicked him out.  So not sure how Schuckhardt's later insanity made the entire group schismatic either.

    I'm no fan of CMRI, BTW, and have serious disagreements with them on many issues.  I just believe in fairness and truth.

    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #4 on: March 09, 2025, 05:07:55 PM »
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  • It would be better if CMRI didn’t tolerate the una cuм mass though


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #5 on: March 09, 2025, 05:11:18 PM »
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  • Cmri need to stop promoting una cuм though

    More slanders.  Here's another guy that needs to get banned for being a radical schismatic (as even the Dimonds refer to him).

    In no way do CMRI "PROMOTE" una cuм.  They merely hold it as their opinion that it's not intrinsically evil or sinful to assist at an una cuм Mass.

    See, it isn't just that you disagree with them (you're entitled to), but when you turn the actual reality (that they tolerate attendance at una cuм Masses) into their "PROMOTING" them, you turn a mere disagreement into a slander by strawmanning their position.

    There are just some people here who are deranged with their agendas and don't care a lick for objective truth.

    I disagree with them on EENS, NFP, and the 1955 Holy Week Rites ... but I'm not going to slander them because of my disagreements.

    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #6 on: March 09, 2025, 05:15:49 PM »
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  • More slanders.  Here's another guy that needs to get banned for being a radical schismatic (as even the Dimonds refer to him).

    In no way do CMRI "PROMOTE" una cuм.  They merely hold it as their opinion that it's not intrinsically evil or sinful to assist at an una cuм Mass.

    See, it isn't just that you disagree with them (you're entitled to), but when you turn the actual reality (that they tolerate attendance at una cuм Masses) into their "PROMOTING" them, you turn a mere disagreement into a slander by strawmanning their position.

    There are just some people here who are deranged with their agendas and don't care a lick for objective truth.

    I disagree with them on EENS, NFP, and the 1955 Holy Week Rites ... but I'm not going to slander them because of my disagreements.
    Ok I am sorry. I should not have said promote. You are right. I fixed it.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #7 on: March 09, 2025, 07:33:31 PM »
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  • +Schuckhardt, received ordination and consecration from an Old ROMAN Catholic, Daniel Brown.

    ...Brown was an Old ROMAN Catholic ... but most Trads, including clergy, don't know the difference.  So, the Old ROMAN Catholics split off from the Utrecht group precisely when and because the latter rejected Vatican I and papal infallibility.  So they did NOT follow them into the heretical positions of the Old Catholics.  Their canonical irregularity stemmed from the fact that the See of Utrecht appealed to some agreement they had with Rome to confer Orders without papal approval, whereas Rome denied it.  So, in this day and age, the remaining Old ROMAN Catholics out there, including one Bishop Meikle ... they're in no different a situation of canonical irregularity than any Traditional Catholic might be.
    THIS ^^^

    Old Catholics are heretics and schismatics who even lost valid Orders when they began "ordaining" women in the 20th century.

    Old ROMAN Catholics are just a small group of Trad Catholics (actually about half a dozen groups with a common origin in the Archdiocese of Utrecht) who are marginalised and much maligned by the vast numbers of persons who ignorantly conflate the Old ROMANS with the Old Catholics or, perpetuating a 17th-century Jesuit slander, falsely label the Old ROMANS as Jansenists.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #8 on: March 09, 2025, 08:48:27 PM »
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  • THIS ^^^

    Old Catholics are heretics and schismatics who even lost valid Orders when they began "ordaining" women in the 20th century.

    Old ROMAN Catholics are just a small group of Trad Catholics (actually about half a dozen groups with a common origin in the Archdiocese of Utrecht) who are marginalised and much maligned by the vast numbers of persons who ignorantly conflate the Old ROMANS with the Old Catholics or, perpetuating a 17th-century Jesuit slander, falsely label the Old ROMANS as Jansenists.
    Exactly

    Here is another resource on this - https://selsey.org/old-roman-catholicism/#who-are-the-old-romans

    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #9 on: March 09, 2025, 09:18:40 PM »
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  • I saw a post on here from about 10 years ago where many were claiming the CMRI were schismatics. Has that opinion changed? Not an opinion i would have expected from this forum.
    The CMRI are not schismatics and + Pivarunas has done a phenomenal job re-organizing Mount St. Michael from the mess Schuckhardt left it in. One should also give a belated "shout out" to the late great Fr. Denis Chicoine who perfectly put an end to the "women priest nonsense" by saying "If God wanted women priests then the Blessed Mother would have been a priest...end of story." It's hard to believe Fr. Denis has been gone for 30 years.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #10 on: March 10, 2025, 02:40:01 PM »
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  • NFP is Federal Government controlled.  I am teacher for Billings, for 45 years.  What we were taught, was God's, said Dr. Billings.  I was in New Orleans when Dr. Billings, being very angry, at the podium, in front of many, said, "This is not yours, it is God's" and he left!

    It took awhile, but I knew what happened.  What was God's was taken over, destroyed, by the feds.  All material, books etc.  were of the feds. and implemented into the world for $$$.

    When Billings(taken over) asked me to file paperwork for $$$ feds, I refused.  So, what God has designed is a beauty!!  I was taught, that I would be helping women get pregnant.  And that was all true!!  Number 1 birth control is sterilization and always will be.  But when I saw how the knowledge given to me could be helpful, it was very good!  

    I teach God, and the Will of God.  I teach how to prevent most miscarriages.  We help those after having Covid jab to have children.  God's knowledge when taught correctly, begets attitude and behavior.  KAB  The acronym I read from communism.  How communism brain washes us.  Very sly!  NFP is a very good example of this.  Take what is God's and change the knowledge to change attitude and behavior, = birth control and abortion.  Planned Parenthood had on their book shelf Billings Book.  How PP teaches is in error.  Brings women back maybe for different as they say birth control to abortion.  PP is very sly, clever, evil!


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #11 on: March 10, 2025, 03:37:53 PM »
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  • .
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #12 on: March 10, 2025, 03:44:06 PM »
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  • It would be better if CMRI didn’t tolerate the una cuм mass though

    This is akin to saying it would be better if they violated their own consciences on a disputed matter that cannot actually be settled in the present circuмstances.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #13 on: March 10, 2025, 04:03:36 PM »
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  • The CMRI are not schismatics and + Pivarunas has done a phenomenal job re-organizing Mount St. Michael from the mess Schuckhardt left it in. One should also give a belated "shout out" to the late great Fr. Denis Chicoine who perfectly put an end to the "women priest nonsense" by saying "If God wanted women priests then the Blessed Mother would have been a priest...end of story." It's hard to believe Fr. Denis has been gone for 30 years.
    I have news for you:  If the subject of "women priests" even comes up in your church, then it is time to find another church. 
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: CMRI and their sedvecantism "schismatic?"
    « Reply #14 on: March 10, 2025, 04:06:49 PM »
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  • Ok I am sorry. I should not have said promote. You are right. I fixed it.

    Thank you.  I appreciate that.  Let's just seek the truth.  Even if we disagree with some group (and I strongly disagree with CMRI on some issues), we should be objective and fair and not engage in hyperbole to the point of possibly slandering them.  If someone who didn't know what the CMRI really believe or hold to, he could have seen your post and come away thinking they CMRI actively promote una cuм Masses, and then tell that to someone else, who might in turn tell someone else, etc.