Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Merry on August 18, 2017, 02:41:11 PM
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Is the CMRI for or against Natural Family Planning - you know, contraception?
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Is the CMRI for or against Natural Family Planning - you know, contraception?
Don't know of any org with valid clergy claiming to be Catholic that aren't pro-NFP, incl. the CMRI.
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May God forgive them.
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May God forgive them.
Not just them either.
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The CMRI has an article on their website on this issue. Anyone can see what the official CMRI position on the matter here:
http://www.cmri.org/03-nfp.html
It turns out that the position of the CMRI is the position of the Catholic Church.
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Don't know of any org with valid clergy claiming to be Catholic that aren't pro-NFP, incl. the CMRI.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wUKqigyArM0/VqH_z40Fv0I/AAAAAAAATJ8/gNubSECrezU/w1200-h630-p-nu/phew.jpg)
I was worried you were a part of CMRI, Thank you Lord!
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Is the CMRI for or against Natural Family Planning - you know, contraception?
Is it okay with you if Natural Family Planning is used in order to conceive a child?
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Besides the moral issues with NFP, there are the myriad of definitions of it, which makes any discussion super complicated. It's like asking someone to define 'conservative' - you'll get a different answer per person (sometime multiple answers). So people can hide behind the idea that NFP can be used for "good", when in fact, the original intention of NFP was NOT to have children. This is why it's wrong.
It's like telling someone that getting high on drugs is wrong and they respond "But, I used morphine in the hospital after I had surgery. See? Drugs aren't bad." :fryingpan:
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Serious reason, is understood.
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As far as I know the only traditional catholic priest to deny NFP in any form was Fr Wathen.
There might be others out there but they all just go with the prey V-2 narrative.
Although Cardinal Ottaviani apparently did not like NFP too.
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From what I understand, it used to be that if a couple had a 'serious' reason for using the rhythm method, they HAD to get their diocesan priest's permission, which required a discussion of the situation so that the priest could determine how 'serious' the reason was. If permission was granted, it was then determined "for how long?" because the Church never intended this to be a long term permission, but only for emergencies.
Nowadays, the rhythm method has turned into the full-blown, immoral, "NFP lifestyle" choice by the couple, with no permission from the priest required, and no obligation to God for their actions, and no intention of ever stopping. The exception has, literally, become the rule. May God have mercy on those couples who think they are blameless "because the Church said it was ok".
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Question asked, and answered. Why are we all still "talking"?
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Is it okay with you if Natural Family Planning is used in order to conceive a child?
Why would it be wrong?
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I don't think Myrna doubts the benefit of using NFP to help conceive. I think the question is a rhetorical one. People here like to paint NFP as an evil, which it is not. Knowlege of how our bodies work and using that knowledge for good is moral.
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Nadir: It's all about the husband's and wife's intention. If they are using the infertile time for the marriage right exclusively--then it is sinful because their intention is to enjoy the pleasures but trying to avoid the first and primary purpose of marriage, which is procreation.
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I agree with Nadir. I know NFP. It is a dubbed label to what God has made. NFP is being taught with reading material that is secular since 1980 that I know. Serious Reason was not in their writings. NFP is favored and paid with federal dollars. It is on the book shelves of Planned Parenthood, but not taught correctly so that pregnancy to abortions take place by giving out condoms to go with NFP. Remember this equation. KAB which is of communism. Knowledge, Attitude, Behavior. knowledge (some truth twisted with half truths and etc) can lead to change of attitudes and to change of behavior.
IMO if God's Design was taught with Truth, Beauty, respect, serious reason, be generous to God with souls, then maybe things would turn out better in this world.
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The CMRI has an article on their website on this issue. Anyone can see what the official CMRI position on the matter here:
http://www.cmri.org/03-nfp.html
It turns out that the position of the CMRI is the position of the Catholic Church.
Hardly.
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Even the reproductive use is by no means immune to corruption. If it weren't for Hell, human deceit would be a bottomless pit.
Pope Pius XI's teaching is the teaching of the Church and in accordance with natural law. Those who use the marital privilege with the intent of preventing the begetting of Children, for any reason whatsoever, commit grave sin.
Pope Pius XI, Castii Connubii #53: "And now, Venerable Brethren, we shall explain in detail the evils opposed to each of the benefits of matrimony. First consideration is due to the offspring, which many have the boldness to call the disagreeable burden of matrimony and which they say is to be carefully avoided by married people not through virtuous continence (which Christian law permits in matrimony when both parties consent) but by frustrating the marriage act. Some justify* this criminal abuse on the ground that they are weary of children and wish to gratify their desires without their consequent burden. Others say that they cannot on the one hand remain continent nor on the other can they have children because of the difficulties whether on the part of the mother or on the part of family circuмstances .
54. But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious.
56. Since, therefore, openly departing from the uninterrupted Christian tradition some recently have judged it possible solemnly to declare another doctrine regarding this question, the Catholic Church, to whom God has entrusted the defense of the integrity and purity of morals, standing erect in the midst of the moral ruin which surrounds her, in order that she may preserve the chastity of the nuptial union from being defiled by this foul stain, raises her voice in token of her divine ambassadorship and through Our mouth proclaims anew: any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin."
In Paragraph 53, The Pope says that it is sinful to use the marital act even because of difficulties of the mother or other family circuмstances. This covers any so called "grave" reasons some say it is legitimate to prevent conception through the evil NFP.
In Paragraph 54, the Pope condemns any act which is against nature and preventing conception is against nature no matter how grave the circuмstances may be.
In Paragraph 56, the Pope condemns any act, like NFP, that deliberately frustrates (prevents) the generation of life. He also shows that this is the uninterrupted tradition of Christians if anyone should think this may not be a statement with any authoritative weight.
This should make it clear that it's the use of NFP with the intent to prevent conception that is condemned. The Pope makes no mention of using scientific knowledge of the natural cycle of a woman to help create life. My opinion is that one should not bother themselves with this method and leave this completely in the hands of God.
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Unnatural means, is not NFP. Frustrating the act is not NFP. The understanding of cervical mucus signs was not taught at the time, and rhythm was guess work. And the times of Pius XI is the turn of the century when Margaret Sanger was pushing the artificial means.
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Nadir: It's all about the husband's and wife's intention. If they are using the infertile time for the marriage right exclusively--then it is sinful because their intention is to enjoy the pleasures but trying to avoid the first and primary purpose of marriage, which is procreation.
Motorede, I am aware that the use of NFP to avoid a child is gravely sinful. But that is not what I was addressing. I was addressing the issue of using knowledge of the fertile period to enhance the possibility of conception.
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It is also the surest way for pregnancy. I know, as a former teacher, Billings method was taught 90% of the time for low fertility. I can only recall 2 couples , jews, that had 7 children each and another who had 9.
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If you taught Billings method, then why do you call it NFP? Too many people get confused terms and multiple meanings when one says 'NFP'. This is a communistic tactic which causes confusion. ---I'm not saying you are a communist. I'm saying that NFP is now a "catch all" for any kind of fertility issue. It did not start out this way and strictly speaking, what you are talking about is not NFP.
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"It is unlawful to exercise an act, AND frustrate the end to which said act is ORDERED."
Attribution uncertain
Man, drinking this coffee with my lap is kinda painful, but eating this oatmeal with my armpits is jollygood squishy fun.
Use of these methods for the purpose of getting pregnant is not what's condemned by the Church. The use of any means, natural or artificial, for preventing conception is what is condemned. No one may purposely engage in the marital act with the intention of not conceiving. Are you understanding this or did you merely want to mention this information which I'm sure, almost no one denies? Serious question.
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From what I understand, it used to be that if a couple had a 'serious' reason for using the rhythm method, they HAD to get their diocesan priest's permission, which required a discussion of the situation so that the priest could determine how 'serious' the reason was. If permission was granted, it was then determined "for how long?" because the Church never intended this to be a long term permission, but only for emergencies.
Nowadays, the rhythm method has turned into the full-blown, immoral, "NFP lifestyle" choice by the couple, with no permission from the priest required, and no obligation to God for their actions, and no intention of ever stopping. The exception has, literally, become the rule. May God have mercy on those couples who think they are blameless "because the Church said it was ok".
Good summary.