Quote from: Peregrine

End of the line

The opening post of this and the original thread explained and focused on the PRESENT problem of a group trying to establish an unCatholic lay controlled church.

Cup & Can persist in pouring in their prattle on PAST events of 2008-2009, with their erroneous "facts" and preposterous postulations.  

Rather than waste everyone's time with further fruitless fighting, I am asking Matthew to lock this thread, and I am asking everyone to please pray that we Catholics stop attacking each other and instead put our energies into building up Christ's Mystical Body.  Thank you!

Peregrine, I still don't think it's a true "derailing." To discuss intelligently the lay-controlled church of the PRESENT, you have to talk about the PAST to explain how it got here.

Since you brought it up, you'll also need to define a "lay-controlled church" vs. a "clergy-controlled church" and then explain it within the context of The Catholic Church and the current crisis.

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Canute

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Cek-(to-all-but-the-paranoid)-not

But why should we believe what you claim Bishop Dolan or Fr. Cekada "told" you or "meant" because you dismiss anything they say (you called Fr. Cekada a liar in one of your earlier statements, remember?) that undermines your attacks against them?

You don't have to believe me. I know what Bp. Dolan told me and it was known by many anyway. The fact was they lost people when they sold Sharonville and moved to West Chester, no matter what reason one assigns to it.

See, Ceknute, one needn't believe one who tells one lie therefore lies about everything. That only occurs in your overly simplistic black and white world, which is likely why you are a dogmatic sedevacantist.  

And from this we deduce the next SJB Rule of Evidence: :judge:

If one of your targets makes a statement that can be twisted for use against him, it's true. If it can be used to defend him or explain his actions as reasonable, it's false!

Sounds pretty dogmatic to me!  

The statement needn't be "twisted" because it is simply a statement of fact. A significant number of people left SGG when they moved to West Chester. Fr. Cekada freely admits people left over "feeneyism" and the "Fr. Ramolla business." On Fisheater's Forum, he failed to mention Schiavo, but the facts are that SGG lost even more people.

Ceknute, are you denying these facts?  

And by presenting them here, the verdict you want readers to render on your clerical targets is which of the following?

1. SGG clergy = good!  :dancing:

2. SGG clergy = bad!  :devil2:

I kinda doubt it's the little smiling guy...

You're simply not a serious person ... or you're just in over your head.

We lost quite a few people about five years ago over Feeneyism and again about two years ago over the Fr. Ramolla business, but we're back up to a solid 300 per Sunday now, with more on major feasts.

All of the trad groups in the greater Cincinnati area originated with us in one way or another. If we'd originally set up parish membership like multi-level marketing, I'd be spending my time these days looking at brochures for million-dollar pipe organs.

Thanks for reading this Cupertino.  You can draw many ideas from this when it comes to problem solving.  Think of how people would get a sence of belonging in some of the private chapels.  We could view each other as human beings again and not adversaries.

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Fr. Cekada-Not-Canute at Fisheater's forum

We lost quite a few people about five years ago over Feeneyism and again about two years ago over the Fr. Ramolla business, but we're back up to a solid 300 per Sunday now, with more on major feasts.

All of the trad groups in the greater Cincinnati area originated with us in one way or another. If we'd originally set up parish membership like multi-level marketing, I'd be spending my time these days looking at brochures for million-dollar pipe organs.

So by quoting this, you want readers here to render what verdict on SGG/Fr. Cekada?

1. SGG/Fr. Cekada = Good
2. SGG/Fr. Cekada  = Bad

Maybe Rawhide/Bazz/Nonno/Cupertino can tell us again about how he believes the bad defines a man.  

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Canute

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Fr. Cekada-Not-Canute-at-Fisheater's-Forum

We lost quite a few people about five years ago over Feeneyism and again about two years ago over the Fr. Ramolla business, but we're back up to a solid 300 per Sunday now, with more on major feasts.

All of the trad groups in the greater Cincinnati area originated with us in one way or another. If we'd originally set up parish membership like multi-level marketing, I'd be spending my time these days looking at brochures for million-dollar pipe organs.

So by quoting this, you want readers here to render what verdict on SGG/Fr. Cekada?

1. SGG/Fr. Cekada = Good
2. SGG/Fr. Cekada  = Bad

Maybe Rawhide/Bazz/Nonno/Cupertino can tell us again about how he believes the bad defines a man.  

So, after all your effort presenting little factoids like the above, we're NOT supposed to use them to render a verdict against the SGG clergy?

:confused1:

Really, SJB! "The mountain labors and brings forth a mouse"!

See Ceknute, you don't need to look at facts to support a pre-determined opinion, but quite possibly the facts will detemine your opinion. Why do you want to avoid the facts, and those from the mouse's own mouth?  

As soon as Hall was fired, he and Janet gαye invited Fr. Jenkins over to their house to meet SGG parishioners that Hall was trying to disaffect -- Fr. Jenkins, who didn't even consider Fr. Ramolla a PRIEST and would have refused the sacraments to Hall two weeks early! Like Arabs, the revolutionaries believed "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

More and more characters shift effortlessly behind the cloaks and filmy stage curtains. Hurry, you'll just catch a glimpse if you're lucky.  Most truths are treated as proprietary information by BOTH sides of this confrontation.

For example, who is this Fr. Jenkins and from whom did he receive his orders?  If he didn't consider Father Ramolla a priest why did he end up on the staff at SAG. And where has he disappeared to now?  And why?

Plenty of cloaks, plenty of daggers. Plenty of pain.

Quote from: Lighthouse

Quote from: Canute

As soon as Hall was fired, he and Janet gαye invited Fr. Jenkins over to their house to meet SGG parishioners that Hall was trying to disaffect -- Fr. Jenkins, who didn't even consider Fr. Ramolla a PRIEST and would have refused the sacraments to Hall two weeks early! Like Arabs, the revolutionaries believed "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

More and more characters shift effortlessly behind the cloaks and filmy stage curtains. Hurry, you'll just catch a glimpse if you're lucky.  Most truths are treated as proprietary information by BOTH sides of this confrontation.

For example, who is this Fr. Jenkins and from whom did he receive his orders?  If he didn't consider Father Ramolla a priest why did he end up on the staff at SAG. And where has he disappeared to now?  And why?

Plenty of cloaks, plenty of daggers. Plenty of pain.

And plenty of factual errors and supposition.

I was unaware Fr. Jenkins was a member of the SAG staff. You may want to ask him and verify this.

Let's not forget the quote above is from Canute. I believe many SGG people know and are friendly with Fr. Jenkins, who was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre. His was one of the "spin-off" trad groups formed when Fr. Cekada changes the locks on the building.

The pissing match between Fr. Cekada and Fr. Jenkins doesn't always extend to the laity.

Thanks for the vulgar priestly imagery, SJB.

Let's not forget that Janet gαye, NOT Canute informed the world of the meeting with Hall, Jenkins, etc.  

gαye described in writing the meeting of Fr. Jenkins and Greenwell at her house.  Her dramatic account is posted at Vipers of Vaudeville Watch.  SJB is trying to imply that "Ceknute" is unreliable, at best.  Of course he is still doing his Saul Alinsky name-calling routine(among other routines right out of the pages of Rules for Radicals.  Get a copy of this evil book and see for yourself, if your priest agrees you should read it for the purposes of understanding what SJB and the Cabal are doing.

If you read Rules for Radicals, you will see fewer cloaks and daggers and more....Saul Alinsky.

I spoke to one of the priests who was locked out of his rectory by Fr. Jenkins.   Maybe SJB's habitual dishonesty is destroying his mind?

Who knows if SJB is telling the truth about the priest he calumniates?  

Who benefits from souls leaving SGG?  Fr. Jenkins and and the Cabal.  Who benefits from Fr. Ramolla's problems leading to people with no place to go?  Again, Fr. Jenkins' chapel.  

 Was Fr. Jenkins really counseling Fr. Ramolla as stated by the Cabal members?  Who knows?  The lies and half-truths and feigned ignorance never stop, do they?