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Author Topic: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei  (Read 2259 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2023, 01:50:40 PM »
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  • Pius XII was surrounded on all sides by wolves. He was a Vatican diplomat prior to becoming Pope, and suffered repeated bouts of illness that weakened him. I'd say he just simply didn't have the constitution to fight the wolves, and probably tried to play ball with them, resulting in a lot of valid, but questionable decisions that opened doors for Vatican II.

    His was not a model papacy, but a weakened, dying one, ready to be overtaken by Modernists.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #16 on: January 05, 2023, 02:11:33 PM »
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  • Pius XII was surrounded on all sides by wolves.

    When hasn't that been the case for any pontiff, though?
    One day at a time.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #17 on: January 05, 2023, 02:18:32 PM »
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  • In my continual studies, I have also noticed this.

    Not only was Pius XII not exactly ideal, but that, as you say, many traditionalists seem to want to paint him only in the best light.

    Does anybody have any good sources on him? Books, articles, etc?

    I don't know what to make of PIus XII. Was he simply trying to "play the game," keep his enemies close, and ended up simply getting played himself? Was he just kinda dumb and easily manipulated? Was he just straight up compromised?

    On another note, the Palmarians in Spain claim that Roncalli/John XXIII and Montini/Paul VI were actually valid popes. They even claim that Montini was drugged and forcibly manipulated! Given the drama that has been coming out of them, it's hard to take those claims seriously.
    I attached a pdf of a few pages on PPXII from Who Shall Ascend? that might be of interest, here's a snip.....

    "It was during Pope Pius XII’s reign that the first changes were made, whose import cannot be understated, for with these changes came the acceptance of the idea of them, which created the atmosphere for what was to come. Let it suffice to list some of the more noteworthy innovations of those years....."
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #18 on: January 05, 2023, 03:02:19 PM »
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  • I attached a pdf of a few pages on PPXII from Who Shall Ascend? that might be of interest, here's a snip.....

    "It was during Pope Pius XII’s reign that the first changes were made, whose import cannot be understated, for with these changes came the acceptance of the idea of them, which created the atmosphere for what was to come. Let it suffice to list some of the more noteworthy innovations of those years....."

    Thanks.
    One day at a time.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #19 on: January 06, 2023, 08:58:53 AM »
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  • Interesting how some former SSPX Sede priests anathematize SSPX masses and others do not. 
    I think we have a three Pope's type situation.  Good Catholics in different camps.
    Meant to thumb up this but hit the wrong button when my finger slipped and couldn't change it.  :facepalm:
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #20 on: January 06, 2023, 09:04:47 AM »
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  • In my continual studies, I have also noticed this.

    Not only was Pius XII not exactly ideal, but that, as you say, many traditionalists seem to want to paint him only in the best light.

    Does anybody have any good sources on him? Books, articles, etc?

    I don't know what to make of PIus XII. Was he simply trying to "play the game," keep his enemies close, and ended up simply getting played himself? Was he just kinda dumb and easily manipulated? Was he just straight up compromised?

    On another note, the Palmarians in Spain claim that Roncalli/John XXIII and Montini/Paul VI were actually valid popes. They even claim that Montini was drugged and forcibly manipulated! Given the drama that has been coming out of them, it's hard to take those claims seriously.
    It is good to hear that someone else has come across these facts in their research as well...

    Another interesting thing I came across recently was that Pacelli while in Germany was the Papal Embassador to Russia...  He had the names of all the secret list of clergy in Russia and somehow the Russians got this information and many good priests and bishops got killed or terribly persecuted because of this.
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #21 on: January 06, 2023, 11:20:32 AM »
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  • It is good to hear that someone else has come across these facts in their research as well...

    Another interesting thing I came across recently was that Pacelli while in Germany was the Papal Embassador to Russia...  He had the names of all the secret list of clergy in Russia and somehow the Russians got this information and many good priests and bishops got killed or terribly persecuted because of this.

    Well out of charity I suppose I would simply have to believe that he was just kinda dumb/incompetent.
    One day at a time.

    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #22 on: January 06, 2023, 01:47:56 PM »
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  • I attached a pdf of a few pages on PPXII from Who Shall Ascend? that might be of interest, here's a snip.....

    "It was during Pope Pius XII’s reign that the first changes were made, whose import cannot be understated, for with these changes came the acceptance of the idea of them, which created the atmosphere for what was to come. Let it suffice to list some of the more noteworthy innovations of those years....."

    That excerpt contains the claim that Pope Pius IX was a former freemason, of the 18th degree, in the footnote at the very end.

    https://novusordowatch.org/2016/11/pius9-Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ-second-rebuttal-tia/

    Some of the masonic sources I glanced over don't even agree on where he was actually initiated into their infernal organization. 
    One day at a time.


    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #23 on: January 06, 2023, 09:44:36 PM »
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  • Well out of charity I suppose I would simply have to believe that he was just kinda dumb/incompetent.
    Something is definitely weird about him and his papacy...but it is hard to confirm all of the facts with the mere information we have access to.  I think it would probably take someone with a good knowledge of Latin, Italian and German traveling to find actual docuмents in Europe to find the real truth.

    So...  Until then we will just pray for his soul and hope that one day God allows someone to clarify everything if it is for the best interest of the Faithful.
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #24 on: January 06, 2023, 09:46:38 PM »
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  • That excerpt contains the claim that Pope Pius IX was a former freemason, of the 18th degree, in the footnote at the very end.

    https://novusordowatch.org/2016/11/pius9-Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ-second-rebuttal-tia/

    Some of the masonic sources I glanced over don't even agree on where he was actually initiated into their infernal organization.
    I don't think that Pope Pius IX could have been a freemason.  He stood up against them too much and was very hated by them...

    And if I remember correctly, Saint Bernadette of Lourdes claimed that one of the primary reasons that Our Lady appeared was to support Pius IX and confirm the decisions and proclamations made by him.
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline Marius

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #25 on: January 06, 2023, 11:47:48 PM »
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  • I don't think that Pope Pius IX could have been a freemason.  He stood up against them too much and was very hated by them...

    And if I remember correctly, Saint Bernadette of Lourdes claimed that one of the primary reasons that Our Lady appeared was to support Pius IX and confirm the decisions and proclamations made by him.
    He made some politically liberal moves at the beginning of his reign, to the celebration of the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic world and against better advice, including from Von Metternich of Austria. Yet after being forced to flee during the 1848 revolutions he spent the entirety of his Pontificate staunchly against liberalism and the Church's enemies that there is even speculation that one motivation of the Franco-Prussian War by Bismarck was to stopped Vatican Council I (France withdrew their troops and Rome was taken). So his actions did contribute to the unfortunate loss of the Papal States but that in no way makes him a Mason, just made poor political decisions early in the first couple of years.
    If the world is against the Truth, then I am against the World. - St. Athanasius
    In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas - St. Augistine


    Offline Cornelius

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    Re: Clarity - Father Hesse on Pope Pius XII and Opus Dei
    « Reply #26 on: January 07, 2023, 09:10:09 AM »
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  • He made some politically liberal moves at the beginning of his reign, to the celebration of the ʝʊdɛօ-masonic world and against better advice, including from Von Metternich of Austria. Yet after being forced to flee during the 1848 revolutions he spent the entirety of his Pontificate staunchly against liberalism and the Church's enemies that there is even speculation that one motivation of the Franco-Prussian War by Bismarck was to stopped Vatican Council I (France withdrew their troops and Rome was taken). So his actions did contribute to the unfortunate loss of the Papal States but that in no way makes him a Mason, just made poor political decisions early in the first couple of years.

    Well, Bismarck had the policy of kulturkampf against the Church, so wouldn't be surprising that disrupting the Church even outside of Germany would figure into the Franco-Prussian War.
    One day at a time.