Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 19

Author Topic: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles  (Read 30461 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 4810
  • Reputation: +2944/-683
  • Gender: Male
Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
« Reply #210 on: December 20, 2022, 06:13:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 20, 2022, 06:06:49 PM
    Fallacious reasoning: 

    Straw Man
    A straw man argument attacks a different subject rather than the topic being discussed. The purpose of this misdirection is to make one's position look stronger than it actually is.
    The straw man argument is appropriately named after a harmless, lifeless scarecrow. Instead of contending with the actual argument, they attack the equivalent of a lifeless bundle of straw — an easily defeated puppet that the opponent was never arguing for in the first place.

    I was just demonstrating that Bishop Sanborn is an unreliable “authority” on this and several other subjects.
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #211 on: December 20, 2022, 06:15:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 20, 2022, 06:13:42 PM
    I was just demonstrating that Bishop Sanborn is an unreliable authority on this and several other subjects.

    More fallacious reasoning:

    Hasty Generalization
    A hasty generalization is a claim based on a few examples rather than substantial proof. Arguments based on hasty generalizations often don't hold up due to a lack of supporting evidence: The claim might be true in one case, but that doesn't mean it's always true.

    You're at three fallacies in as many posts.
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4810
    • Reputation: +2944/-683
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #212 on: December 20, 2022, 06:17:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 20, 2022, 06:13:26 PM
    More fallacious reasoning: Canon 188 is not under discussion, but cuм ex.

    Red Herring
    A red herring is an argument that uses confusion or distraction to shift attention away from a topic and toward a false conclusion. Red herrings usually contain an unimportant fact, idea, or event that has little relevance to the real issue.
    Red herrings are a common diversionary tactic when someone wants to shift the focus of an argument to something easier or safer to address.

    I just posted a page from a prominent commentary on the 1917 Code of Canon Law that references cuм Ex when discussing canon 188. Sorry, but that is certainly NOT a red herring.
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48011
    • Reputation: +28363/-5306
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #213 on: December 20, 2022, 06:18:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: DecemRationis on December 20, 2022, 03:23:07 PM
    Can you show us where it teaches this?

    Sure.  In addition to treating (most famously) about infallibility, Vatican I taught about the relationship between faith and reason.

    Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith.  Chapter 3 
    https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/first-vatican-council-1505
    Quote
    4. Nevertheless, in order that the submission of our faith should be in accordance with reason, it was God's will that there should be linked to the internal assistance of the Holy Spirit external indications of his revelation, that is to say divine acts, and first and foremost miracles and prophecies, which clearly demonstrating as they do the omnipotence and infinite knowledge of God, are the most certain signs of revelation and are suited to the understanding of all.
    ...
    6. Now, although the assent of faith is by no means a blind movement of the mind, yet no one can accept the gospel preaching in the way that is necessary for achieving salvation without the inspiration and illumination of the Holy Spirit, who gives to all facility in accepting and believing the truth.
    ...
    11. To the Catholic Church alone belong all those things, so many and so marvelous, which have been divinely ordained to make for the manifest credibility of the Christian faith.

    12. What is more, the Church herself by reason of her astonishing propagation, her outstanding holiness and her inexhaustible fertility in every kind of goodness, by her Catholic unity and her unconquerable stability, is a kind of great and perpetual motive of credibility and an incontrovertible evidence of her own divine mission.

    Logged

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48011
    • Reputation: +28363/-5306
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #214 on: December 20, 2022, 06:19:54 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 20, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
    It’s quite a stretch to argue laymen deposing popes unilaterally is a right conferred by divine law.

    No laymen are deposing popes.  This is yet another dishonest strawman argument on your part.  It's really very disappointing to see you constantly carrying on in this manner.
    Logged

    Offline DecemRationis

    • Supporter
    • ****
    • Posts: 2348
    • Reputation: +882/-146
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #215 on: December 20, 2022, 06:20:01 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DecemRationis on December 20, 2022, 05:14:00 PM
    I'll try this differently.

    You are arguing laymen inherently - as a matter of the divine hierarchical structure of the Church and its authority - do not have the power; Paul IV noted they have that power under certain circuмstances.

    Did you really think his Bull contains something contrary to divine law?

    Sean:  

    Quote
    Therefore, Paul IV himself was never a pope (and the Bull never valid), since Ibranyi has declared the last 102 popes were antipopes, on the basis of this principle?


    Never mind.
    Logged
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #216 on: December 20, 2022, 06:20:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 20, 2022, 06:17:24 PM
    I just posted a page from a prominent commentary on the 1917 Code of Canon Law that references cuм Ex when discussing canon 188. Sorry, but that is certainly NOT a red herring.

    It was already shown to be of no account.

    It is the epitomy of the red herring.
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4810
    • Reputation: +2944/-683
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #217 on: December 20, 2022, 06:21:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 20, 2022, 06:15:51 PM
    More fallacious reasoning:

    Hasty Generalization
    A hasty generalization is a claim based on a few examples rather than substantial proof. Arguments based on hasty generalizations often don't hold up due to a lack of supporting evidence: The claim might be true in one case, but that doesn't mean it's always true.

    You're at three fallacies in as many posts.

    What you are doing is letting your prejudice against sedevacantism muddle your rationality. Anything but sedevacantism. Please Sean, just step back for two minutes and reflect on what is being presented to you.
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4810
    • Reputation: +2944/-683
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #218 on: December 20, 2022, 06:22:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 20, 2022, 06:20:48 PM
    It was already shown to be of no account.

    It is the epitomy of the red herring.

    That is ABSOLUTELY untrue. 
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #219 on: December 20, 2022, 06:22:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 20, 2022, 06:19:54 PM
    No laymen are deposing popes.  This is yet another dishonest strawman argument on your part.  It's really very disappointing to see you constantly carrying on in this manner.

    You're way behind.

    Please respond to Bishop Sanborn.

    I have no doubt you'll readily explain why you know more than him.
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48011
    • Reputation: +28363/-5306
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #220 on: December 20, 2022, 06:23:44 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 20, 2022, 05:42:19 PM
    I prefer to let Bishop Sanborn explain why cuм ex is moot:

    Your contending that it's "moot" completely misses the argument, as usual.  I never said that it wasn't legislative ... just that there are elements / aspects of divine law within it as premises, particularly the rejection of convalidation by UA.

    In any case, I didn't know you've suddenly become a follower of Bishop Sanborn.  He would denounce your ecclesiology as manifest heresy (and rightly so).
    Logged

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #221 on: December 20, 2022, 06:23:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DecemRationis on December 20, 2022, 06:20:01 PM
    Sean: 


    Never mind.

    You're way behind too.

    Please explain why Bishop Sanborn (and Fr. Coronato and Canon Hess) are wrongin saying cuм ex is not applicable.
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #222 on: December 20, 2022, 06:25:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 20, 2022, 06:21:24 PM
    What you are doing is letting your prejudice against sedevacantism muddle your rationality. Anything but sedevacantism. Please Sean, just step back for two minutes and reflect on what is being presented to you.

    Appeal to Hypocrisy
    An appeal to hypocrisy — also known as the tu quoque fallacy — focuses on the hypocrisy of an opponent. The tu quoque fallacy deflects criticism away from oneself by accusing the other person of the same problem or something comparable.

    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3163
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #223 on: December 20, 2022, 06:25:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on December 20, 2022, 06:22:19 PM
    That is ABSOLUTELY untrue.

    It is blatantly and obviously true.
    Logged
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48011
    • Reputation: +28363/-5306
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
    « Reply #224 on: December 20, 2022, 06:26:08 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 20, 2022, 06:06:49 PM
    Fallacious reasoning: 

    Straw Man
    A straw man argument attacks a different subject rather than the topic being discussed. The purpose of this misdirection is to make one's position look stronger than it actually is.
    The straw man argument is appropriately named after a harmless, lifeless scarecrow. Instead of contending with the actual argument, they attack the equivalent of a lifeless bundle of straw — an easily defeated puppet that the opponent was never arguing for in the first place.

    #1 ... you clearly have no idea what a Straw Man is.

    #2 ... his point was a valid one.  You attempt to use Bishop Sanborn as a fallacious (and dishonest / disingenuous) appeal to authority, when you have very little respect for what Bishop Sanborn says, and he would denounce you as a heretic.
    Logged
    Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 19
    « previous next »