Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles  (Read 32446 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
« Reply #90 on: December 19, 2022, 11:37:13 AM »
Well said, but miracles have always been a part of our faith. A part we are not bound to believe in even if the Church approves it. Some miracles - imo - we'd be foolish to disbelieve, then there are other miracles like the NO miracles, we'd be foolish to believe - because miracles tend to draw people to the miracles, which means the NO miracles would lead people who believe them to be from God, into the NO.

Right, this is my feeling as well.  Convinced as we are that the NOM is displeasing to God and harmful to souls, I hold these "miracles" to be fake, and if there's no natural explanation, that it was of diabolical instigation.  As I've said repeatedly, if I were the devil and had introduced an invalid (or at lease offensive and harmful) Rite of Mass, probably one of the first things I'd do would be to fake a few such miracles to get everyone to buy in.

This isn't, as Sean says, just about increasing faith in the Real Presence, but ... if it's diabolical in origin ... could very well be calculated to suck people into the Novus Ordo or to prevent them from waking up to the evils of the NOM.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2022, 11:44:39 AM »
So far as I can tell, nobody has been able to overcome this (despite Loudestmouth’s frothy arbitrary pronouncements).

Unless someone has something new to add, I consider the case closed.

Only thing that's closed is your mind, Sean.  Most people here understand that the "miracles" prove nothing, as they can easily be of diabolical origin.

Beyond that, it's speculation vs. speculation.  I hold (speculate) that God would not work a miracle tied to the NOM if the NOM displeases Him and harms souls, in that it would have the effect of keeping people attached to it.  How else would most simple lay people interpret said miracles than as, "Well, if God worked a miracle at the NOM, it can't be all that bad?"

You speculate that God might work a miracle to increase faith in the Real Presence.  Your attempt to apply St. Thomas as proof for your position is logically fallacious.  St. Thomas merely teaches that WHEN God works such miracles, He does so IN ORDER TO increase faith in the Blessed Sacrament ... which I think is generally accepted by all.

Isn't my speculation (opinion) more consistent with the mind of the Church?  When the Church is presented with a miracle or private revelation, the first thing that happens is an investigation into the orthodox of any purported message (and then the virtues of the purported visionaries / seers if any).  If there's even a hint of heterodoxy, the verdict of the Church is invariably, non constat de supernaturalitate.

I went in search of Orthodox Eucharistic miracles, and could find none.

Bottom line though as these miracles PROVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
« Reply #92 on: December 19, 2022, 11:50:45 AM »
Never noticed before how Paul VI is a reversal or Paul IV. Interesting connection methinks.

I also notice that Paul VI's signature upside down has an obvious 666 :-)

Also alleged about Paul VI is that he chose the papal name in honor of his sodomite "lover", Paolo Carlini.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
« Reply #93 on: December 19, 2022, 11:50:54 AM »
This isn't, as Sean says, just about increasing faith in the Real Presence, but ... if it's diabolical in origin ... could very well be calculated to suck people into the Novus Ordo or to prevent them from waking up to the evils of the NOM.
Absolutely! The effect of a NO miracle on NOers is not an increase in the Real Presence anyway, the effect of the miracle is: "It's a miracle! The host bleeds!" *That's* it - that's all of it. That's the fruit of a NO miracle - rotten. 

Offline Meg

Re: Claimed Eucharistic Miracles
« Reply #94 on: December 19, 2022, 11:55:59 AM »

I went in search of Orthodox Eucharistic miracles, and could find none.

Bottom line though as these miracles PROVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Okay, but does either the Church or St. Thomas teach that it isn't possible for a miracle to happen in a schismatic (though valid) Mass? I don't know what the teaching is for this, or if there even is one.