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Author Topic: Claim - "SSPX are in schism, confessions invalid"  (Read 4231 times)

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Re: Claim - "SSPX are in schism, confessions invalid"
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2023, 05:58:00 PM »
Yes, in normal times, if a priest from, say, the Cleveland Diocese were in Chicago, say visiting family or on vacation, vs. say by invitation of the bishop of Chicago specifically to help out, outside of his own bishop's territory, he wouldn't be able to help out with Confessions until he went to the Chancery and obtained the necessary jurisdiction from the Bishop of Chicago.  This is, BTW, where "common error" fits in.  Let's say this priest didn't know this and just sat in the Confessional in a church in Chicago, and the faithful rightly just assumed he had the necessary jurisdiction, they start lining up and going to Confession, those Confessions would be valid due to the dispensation of the Church.  If found out, I'm sure the priest would be reprimanded and required to do some refresher studies.  "Common Error" is not, as the SSPX have long spun it, a reference to widespread doctrinal error, just as "Faith is greater than obedience" refers to obedience to positive commands, and not to the teaching authority of the Church, the Magisterium.

Of course, with emergencies, i.e. danger of death, any valid priest, Orthodox, schismatic, even laicized, would be able to validly hear the Confession due to the fact that the Church not only gives them the jurisdiction for that act, but even commands them to do so, for the good fo the faithful.  St. Pius X permitted Catholics in Orthodox territories to receive the Sacraments, including Confession, from the schismatics ... and by that act he effectively gave the Orthodox the necessary jurisdiction, for those acts only, to hear the Confessions.

So the mind of the Church is always toward the souls of the faithful, and that is why it's said that the Supreme Law is the Salvation of Souls.  Unless we're hallucinating, and all is right with the Conciliar Church, and there's on Crisis whatsoever, where there's "nothing to see here, move along", the Church supplies jurisdiction to Traditional Catholic priests for valid Confessions.

Great and accurate answer in all respects. ^^^

Only thing I would add is that conciliar priests (or any priest granted faculties by conciliar authorities) now have universal jurisdiction (i.e., they can hear any confession anywhere, excepting reserved sins).  Of course, sedevacantists would consider this to be a fictitious arrangement.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Claim - "SSPX are in schism, confessions invalid"
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2023, 07:13:37 PM »
Great and accurate answer in all respects. ^^^

Only thing I would add is that conciliar priests (or any priest granted faculties by conciliar authorities) now have universal jurisdiction (i.e., they can hear any confession anywhere, excepting reserved sins).  Of course, sedevacantists would consider this to be a fictitious arrangement.

Yes, thank you for supplying the oversight  Yes, there are some personal prelatures that are not geographic.  Also, interestingly, by way of example, in my area, Parma, OH is the center of a Ukrainian Eparchy and of a Byzantine Ruthenian Eparchy, as well as being within the Cleveland diocese.  So THREE different territorial jurisdictions overlap.

Very often various Bishops will just give blanket permission for various goups to operate within the Diocese, e.g. the Jesuits, Benedictines, FSSP, whatever ... so that if someone is in good standing with their respective order or group, they're granted blanket jurisdiction.  Bishop doesn't necessarily have to name each priest by name.


Re: Claim - "SSPX are in schism, confessions invalid"
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2023, 12:06:58 AM »
Yes, thank you for supplying the oversight  Yes, there are some personal prelatures that are not geographic.  Also, interestingly, by way of example, in my area, Parma, OH is the center of a Ukrainian Eparchy and of a Byzantine Ruthenian Eparchy, as well as being within the Cleveland diocese.  So THREE different territorial jurisdictions overlap.

Very often various Bishops will just give blanket permission for various goups to operate within the Diocese, e.g. the Jesuits, Benedictines, FSSP, whatever ... so that if someone is in good standing with their respective order or group, they're granted blanket jurisdiction.  Bishop doesn't necessarily have to name each priest by name.

So Lad, in an emergency, which priests would you avoid for confession?

Would SSPX be okay if they were valid but not if they were invalid newcomers not conditionally ordained?


Re: Claim - "SSPX are in schism, confessions invalid"
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2023, 07:55:18 AM »
Yes, in normal times, if a priest from, say, the Cleveland Diocese were in Chicago, say visiting family or on vacation, vs. say by invitation of the bishop of Chicago specifically to help out, outside of his own bishop's territory, he wouldn't be able to help out with Confessions until he went to the Chancery and obtained the necessary jurisdiction from the Bishop of Chicago.  This is, BTW, where "common error" fits in.  Let's say this priest didn't know this and just sat in the Confessional in a church in Chicago, and the faithful rightly just assumed he had the necessary jurisdiction, they start lining up and going to Confession, those Confessions would be valid due to the dispensation of the Church.  If found out, I'm sure the priest would be reprimanded and required to do some refresher studies.  "Common Error" is not, as the SSPX have long spun it, a reference to widespread doctrinal error, just as "Faith is greater than obedience" refers to obedience to positive commands, and not to the teaching authority of the Church, the Magisterium.

Of course, with emergencies, i.e. danger of death, any valid priest, Orthodox, schismatic, even laicized, would be able to validly hear the Confession due to the fact that the Church not only gives them the jurisdiction for that act, but even commands them to do so, for the good fo the faithful.  St. Pius X permitted Catholics in Orthodox territories to receive the Sacraments, including Confession, from the schismatics ... and by that act he effectively gave the Orthodox the necessary jurisdiction, for those acts only, to hear the Confessions.

So the mind of the Church is always toward the souls of the faithful, and that is why it's said that the Supreme Law is the Salvation of Souls.  Unless we're hallucinating, and all is right with the Conciliar Church, and there's on Crisis whatsoever, where there's "nothing to see here, move along", the Church supplies jurisdiction to Traditional Catholic priests for valid Confessions.
OK, but what if the priest did know this.  Those confessions are invalid and those Catholics did not receive valid absolution?  How is that acting in accordance with the Supreme Law of Salvation of Souls?

Re: Claim - "SSPX are in schism, confessions invalid"
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2023, 08:09:57 AM »
I have a guy on Twitter arguing that confessions with SSPX priests are "invalid" because they are in schism. :facepalm:

https://twitter.com/DigitalLog0s/status/1620624364059398144?t=rnCC_JTfbKU5qW-xYyLd_g&s=19
Intellectually speaking, this guy is eating out of garbage cans. 

Been there, done that, feller.

Snore.....