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Author Topic: CITH and Girl Altar Boys Were Never Abuses  (Read 2770 times)

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CITH and Girl Altar Boys Were Never Abuses
« on: April 06, 2010, 06:30:19 PM »
Quote
Originally Posted by stevusmagnus  
JPII forbade the practice. Bishops and priests were disobedient. Vatican caved. Same story as CITH. Tragic.


Sorry Steve, I can't really see that is anything but plain wrong.

As you mentioned, in Inaestimabile Donum Pope JPII did indeed teach the discipline that the tradition of the Latin Church was for male altar servers. He taught it as discipline, not doctrine in 1980. Note that in 1980 we were still under the 1917 Code of Canon Law.

About a decade later, some Bishops did permit girl altar servers based on their reading of Canon 230 Section 2, which was adopted in the new code in 1983 : "§2. Lay persons can fulfill the function of lector in liturgical actions by temporary designation. All lay persons can also perform the functions of commentator or cantor, or other functions, according to the norm of law."

Since this interpretation from the new code seemed to be in conflict with the Pope's teaching under the 1917 Code, the Pope himself asked that the matter be settled and this was done via the Congregation for Divine Worship which clarified the issue in 1994: http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwcomm.htm The basic parts that apply to our conversation (underlined parts are mine)
The Pontifical Council for the interpretation of Legislative Texts was recently asked if the liturgical functions which, according to the above canon, can be entrusted to the lay faithful, may be carried out equally by men and women, and if serving at the altar may be included among those functions, on a par with the others indicated by the canon.

The Holy See respects the decision adopted by certain Bishops for specific local reasons on the basis of the provisions of Canon 230 2. At the same time, however, the Holy See wishes to recall that it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar. As is well known, this has led to a reassuring development of priestly vocations. Thus the obligation to support such groups of altar boys will always continue.

In communicating the above, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has sought to carry out the mandate received from the Supreme Pontiff to provide directives to illustrate what is laid down in Canon 230 #2 of the Code of Canon Law and its authentic interpretation, which will shortly be published.
JPII allowed this interpretation to be published, hence he approved. If he believed that female altar servers should not have been allowed, even in light of the new Canon Law, he could have stopped it.

I guess if you already have an agenda then you can spin it to whatever suits you. However the facts seem to bear out it was only Bishops, not priests, who did this; they did it on the basis of their interpretation of the new code; their interpretation was upheld by the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Pope; and you have to go a long way to convince me that the Pope "caved" by (1) Asking for a review and (2) approving the interpretation.

Female altar servers are a discipline, just like CITH, and disciplines change. There is nothing tragic about that.

CITH and Girl Altar Boys Were Never Abuses
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 06:39:05 PM »
  The first thing we need to clear is whether or not gender related matters include children. Sex segregation and many other laws that insist on the hierarchy and gender differences are still in use in some cultures. But as far as I know children are an exemption (excpet perhaps in circuмscision law).
  Don't get me wrong, I am not for altar girls.
 I just wonder if a child's gender-so long as he is a child, and not in view of his future-- matters at all.


CITH and Girl Altar Boys Were Never Abuses
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 06:39:29 PM »
The man would deny Jesus if the bishops told him to.  The only thing "tragic" here is the nauseating nominalism married to a kind of positivism that totally vitiates the mind.  

CITH and Girl Altar Boys Were Never Abuses
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 06:41:13 PM »

CITH and Girl Altar Boys Were Never Abuses
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 06:47:45 PM »
I threw this out there:


It is irrelevant that these are disciplinary laws or that they were changed. This is obvious.

The point is that CITH and girl altar boys began in disobedience. CITH was forbidden, but practiced in disobedience before Paul VI caved and allowed it. He had even previously preached against it! So did JPII although he allowed it as an "exception" (which is now the rule in practice.)

Girl altar boys were forbidden in 1980 and yet disobedient priests were allowing it, which is why JPII forbade it explicitly in the Encyclical I quoted.

Bishops did not suddenly find a "new right" to girl altar boys in Canon Law. They were obviously forbidden and their appeal to Canon Law was a charade.After years upon years of disobedience Rome finally caved, just like CITH, rather than try to discipline numerous disobedient clergy.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.