Author Topic: Charismatic Renewal Defended (Read 3210 times)

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #30 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:16:47 PM »

Response:

Quote

This is garbage from a radical group that claims the title of "Catholic" but refuses to submit to the teachings of Vatican 2 (an Ecuмenical council which bears the mark of infallibility), and as a radical site that does not adhere to the Magisterium, must be rejected with respect to their analysis of authentic Catholic teaching.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #31 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:21:41 PM »

Quote

The legitimate Charismatic Renewal does NOT display supernatural gifts in the context of the Mass. Why do Traditionalists reject the Holy Spirit and his gifts?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #32 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:23:46 PM »

My response:

1.) What radical group?

2.) Why are they not Catholic?

3.) What teachings of VCII do they refuse to submit to?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #33 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:24:38 PM »

Also:

What in this article is "garbage"? If it is such trash, surely it can be easily refuted.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #34 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:34:51 PM »

Quote

1) they do not identify themselves, but they are obviously radicals by quick perusal of the docuмents on their site.

2) They reject that Vatican 2 is infallible

3) that have an entire article dedicated to the "errors" of Vatican 2.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #35 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:36:45 PM »

Reply:

1.) Judge not.

2.) It wasn't infallible.

3.) VCII was not infallible and therefore could err. In addition "errors" could refer to as yet uncorrected beliefs some hold in interpreting the VCII docuмents.

Alexandria · « **Reply #36 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:59:48 PM »

The bottom line with these people is this: DON'T THROW YOUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE.

Their religion began with Vatican II.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #37 on:** April 06, 2010, 08:04:00 PM »

Quote

If he speaks against what the Popes and Magisterium have approved, then yes, it is a waste of my time.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #38 on:** April 06, 2010, 09:51:00 PM »

Quote

I can answer this question with a resounding yes. Charismatics do pray for an increase in Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, Prudence, Fear of the Lord, Piety, and Fortitude (or perseverance).
We ask for the wisdom needed in a given situation and the knowledge of God's Will in our life.
Once when I received insight into a particular situation, I protested "This is not what I asked" only to find in my journal where I had asked for understanding.
We learn from experience that when we ask for patience, God might give us the opportunity to learn patience.
When facing a difficult situation, a friend used to quip "one more lap around the desert." We all needs God's strength to persevere, to remain strong in Faith when that faith is being tested.
We pray for healing knowing that not all healing is instantaneous. I often follow praying the rosary with the Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary which ends with a prayer for perpetual health of mind and body.
We understand Fear of the Lord not in terms of being afraid. "God is Love and he who abides in Love abides in God and God in him." Rather we understand this "fear" as reverence and awe. Our God is an awesome God.
I will repeat what I wrote in an earlier post about a priest who asked the question "How big is God?" He shared the response of a young boy about my age at the time. "God is so big the heavens cannot contain Him and so small He fits in each one of our hearts." The more we experience God within our hearts, the greater our awareness becomes of a God "the heavens cannot contain" and how insignificant we really are and the love He has for each one of us.

Again, the mission of the last group to which I belonged stateside was intercessory prayer. The prayers were not merely for ourselves but for the parish, the community, and the country. We commonly prayed for an end to abortion and the safe return of our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some members would stand silent vigil at the local abortion clinic. We prayed for families in crisis and parish members in need of healing. We prayed for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the city and country. We prayed that family members who had left the Catholic Church might return.

Caminus · « **Reply #39 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:27:23 PM »

Quote

I can answer this question with a resounding yes.

Then why do we not only see no evidence of these gifts, but even obstinate sinning against them? It is clear from your explanation that you do not even understand the nature of each gift. The entire point is that you are confusing sensuality with spirituality and claiming it is the Holy Spirit. This entire charade in an exercise of self-will in the name of doing God's will. You do not see the glaring egoism involved. And because you seek the extraordinary, you are or will be soon a special victim of the Devil who tolerates much good in order to inject a small amount of poison. You have no idea what you are dealing with.

Caminus · « **Reply #40 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:38:54 PM »

Quote

The more we experience God within our hearts, the greater our awareness becomes of a God "the heavens cannot contain" and how insignificant we really are and the love He has for each one of us.

That which you think is "experiencing" God in your heart is the same "experience" that a man gets in riding a roller coaster or getting himself hyped up to play a sport. It's not God, it's yourself. Even if you did experience sensory delight in prayer, this is but the milk of an infant in the spiritual life. To claim that more of this is indicative of our greater union with God is foolish. Your entire conception of the spiritual life is radically opposed to the spiritual masters. I must say that I am not surprised given the universal disorientation of souls. I am sure you are very sincere in your beliefs, but they are untested, unwise and extraordinarily dangerous. It's not as if the ordinary way of sanctity is negotiable, it's general outlines are morally necessary to reach union with God. A denial of this is a denial of our true spiritual condition.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #41 on:** April 06, 2010, 11:12:43 PM »

Caminus,

I love your answers.

You'd get banned from CAF within a week!