Author Topic: Church Remained Catholic at VCII?  (Read 1129 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
« on: March 17, 2011, 11:19:22 PM »
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  • Neo-Cath priest writes...

    "The Church REMAINED Catholic at VCII... not BECAME Catholic... that is the difference between our perspectives - You think the Church LEFT Catholicism at VCII.  Too bad the Holy Spirit neglected to provide for that Ecumenical Council.  Maybe He was exhausted after the previous 20 and had no energy left?!?  Maybe He forgot it was meeting?!?  Maybe he misled the 98+% of the pre-Vatican II bishops to vote for Dei Verbum."

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #1 on: March 17, 2011, 11:28:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Neo-Cath priest writes...

    "The Church REMAINED Catholic at VCII... not BECAME Catholic... that is the difference between our perspectives - You think the Church LEFT Catholicism at VCII.  Too bad the Holy Spirit neglected to provide for that Ecumenical Council.  Maybe He was exhausted after the previous 20 and had no energy left?!?  Maybe He forgot it was meeting?!?  Maybe he misled the 98+% of the pre-Vatican II bishops to vote for Dei Verbum."


    The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself and true teachings do not change with the times.



    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #2 on: March 17, 2011, 11:52:46 PM »
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  • I agree.

    However he would say VCII contradicted nothing and changed nothing of true teaching.

    He kept lauding Dei Verbum as the finest statement on Divine Revelation the Church has produced and challenging me as to what was wrong with it.

    I pointed out some things and used a quote from Card Ratzinger that Bishop Fellay used in a letter to show even the Pope thought DV was different from VCI and Trent. He asked to see the context of the quote. I looked it up and it is from a German book that is not available online. I sent a link to a site about the book just so he could see the book exists.
    He then had this to say....

    "you quote things (off websites) without context and ask me for my comments (I once had a protestant, who found a papal quote on an anti-Catholic website and expected me to defend it - he did not even know the source document - and then he told me it was MY responsibility to find the quote).  Similarly, when I asked you for the "..." and the context, you provide me a way of buying a $200 book so that I can see it for myself."

    He used it as a pretext to show some sort of chicanery and avoid facing the fact his own Pope agrees DV is different.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 12:08:19 AM »
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  • Here is the quote:

    http://www.sspx.org/superior_generals_ltrs/supgen_62.htm

    "Then on the concept of tradition in Vatican II’s Dei Verbum, again Cardinal Ratzinger writes:

    Vatican II’s refusal of the proposal to adopt the text of Lerins, familiar to, and, as it were, sanctified by two Church Councils, shows once more how Trent and Vatican I were left behind, how their texts were continually reinterpreted....Vatican II had a new idea of how historical identity and continuity are to be brought about. The static semper of Vincent of Lerins no longer seems to Vatican II adequate to express the problem. (L.Th.K., Vol. 13, p. 521)"

    Why the heck would BF use this quote in an insincere way in a public letter opening himself up to easy discrediting? One may disagree with BF on many things but he is a holy man and not a deceiving liar with zero common sense!

    Offline Exilenomore

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #4 on: March 18, 2011, 10:45:50 AM »
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  • It seems like the man is not willing to have a serious discussion. There is not much one can do about that really, other than pray of course.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 10:53:31 AM »
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  • 2Thessalonians chapter 2 READ IT!
    Let NO ONE deceive you in ANY WAY, for the day of the Lord will not come unless the APOSTASY COMES FIRST.   Vatican II, is that APOSTASY, Stevus!   If you read further down it actually says the man of sin will SIT IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD!  (The Chair of Peter?)


    Offline Exilenomore

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 01:08:35 PM »
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  • Myrna

    The 'man of perdition' alluded to in sacred Scripture can not sit in the Chair of Peter, he can only usurp material churchbuildings and set up his own seat against that of Peter.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 01:21:08 PM »
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  • Your right!  That is very much like what these VII so-called popes have done.  

    St. Peter in heaven has nothing in common with them.  Yet his successors who are guided by the Holy Ghost should be as St. Peter;  a spiritual "clone" if I can use that word to make a point.  


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 10:33:20 PM »
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  • Many "men of sin"  have sat in the Chair of Peter, including Peter who denied Christ 3 times and later as Pope had to be rebuked by Paul.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 11:24:41 PM »
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  • Agreed we are all sinners, but thats not what the verse was warning us about.  Why am I not surprised, you didn't get it!

    Offline Exilenomore

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    Church Remained Catholic at VCII?
    « Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 08:20:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Many "men of sin"  have sat in the Chair of Peter, including Peter who denied Christ 3 times and later as Pope had to be rebuked by Paul.


    I am guessing you misunderstood what St. Paul meant with the 'man of perdition'. If you read the verse in context you will note that he was speaking of the anti-christ. Thus your post gives implications that you were calling Saint Peter the anti-christ.

    You obviously did not mean it that way but you should know that it is outrageous to apply that verse from Ephesians to St. Peter.


     

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