Author Topic: Christians and Muslims (Read 3205 times)

pax · « **on:** January 03, 2010, 07:59:39 AM »

I keep hearing where the present Magisterium teaches that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. But when I ask for the proof, I am answered with silence.

Does anyone have the official docuмent from the Magisterium which says that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

CM · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2010, 02:18:35 PM »

You're in so far over your head it's not even funny.

Quote from: NON magisterial docuмent of the ANTICHURCH, in which Antipope Paul VI, at the "Second Vatican Council", in Lumen Gentium of 1964

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

Now go scourge yourself in a cave for 40 days taking only bread and water, whilst humbling yourself before God and admitting your blindness and beg him to draw you out of it.

Even 3 days, just get outta here!

pax · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2010, 04:13:28 PM »

Quote from: CM

You're in so far over your head it's not even funny.

Quote
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

Do not all those who profess to hold the faith of Abraham worship the same God as us?

It is beyond the competence of the Church to declare which god a non-member of the Church is worshiping. But it is within Her competence to declare that those who profess to hold the faith of Abraham do indeed worship the same God as us.

The fact of the matter is you do not know what it is you are reading. You get a sound byte, and you gnash your teeth. You have a faith based on emotionalism, which is a very bad thing to base your faith on.

CM · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2010, 04:57:49 PM »

Your grammar is weak.

What is the purpose of a comma? To separate elements in a sentence. In other words, if you remove any portion between two commas, you still get a coherent sentence that conveys the full meaning, except that only one element is missing.

So, let's break down the sentence, shall we?

Quote

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.

In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans,

who,

professing to hold the faith of Abraham,

along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

Alright, now what is the "church" asserting here? Let's remove only one element of the statement:

Quote

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

So they are asserting that Mohammedans worship the same god. Professing to hold the Faith of Abraham is one thing. But the "council" did not assert that they "PROFESS" to worship the same God as Catholics, and anybody who is not a complete moron knows right off the bat that Muslims DO NOT profess to worship the same God as Catholics.

One could simply split such a statement into many smaller sentences, which together express each idea expressed in the larger sentence that has more commas.

Quote

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans. The Mohammedans profess to hold the faith of Abraham. Along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

So anyway :plant:

CM · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:02:34 PM »

Quote

Do not all those who profess to hold the faith of Abraham worship the same God as us?

No.

Quote from: Psalm 95:5

For all the gods of the Gentiles are :devil2: :devil2: :devil2:: but the Lord made the heavens.

pax · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:06:24 PM »

Quote from: CM

Your grammar is weak.

What is the purpose of a comma? To separate elements in a sentence. In other words, if you remove any portion between two commas, you still get a coherent sentence that conveys the full meaning, except that only one element is missing.

So, let's break down the sentence, shall we?

Quote
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.

In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans,

who,

professing to hold the faith of Abraham,

along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

Alright, now what is the "church" asserting here? Let's remove only one element of the statement:

Quote
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, who on the last day will judge mankind.

Hmmm.... Doesn't work.

How old are you?

pax · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:08:38 PM »

Quote from: CM

Quote
Do not all those who profess to hold the faith of Abraham worship the same God as us?

No.

Quote from: Psalm 95:5
For all the gods of the Gentiles are :devil2: :devil2: :devil2:: but the Lord made the heavens.

Typical Protestant move, to cite a passage of Scripture totally unrelated to the topic.

Let me make it really simple for you:

Did Abraham worship the same God as us?

CM · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:12:22 PM »

Quote from: The Judaic

Did Abraham worship the same God as us?

Yes.

pax · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:16:01 PM »

Quote from: CM

Quote
Did Abraham worship the same God as us?

Yes.

Do those who have the same faith as Abraham also worship the same God as us?

(PS -- Please stop embarrassing yourself with your childish ad hominems.)

CM · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:19:59 PM »

Quote from: The guy who I am thoroughly convinced is a Jєωιѕн shill, based on his tenacity against the Catholic Faith

Do those who HAVE the same faith as Abraham also worship the same God as us?

Yes.

And now I ask YOU:

What Faith does Abraham NOW HAVE?

And does everyone who claims to have the Faith of Abraham really have it?

pax · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:29:15 PM »

Quote from: CM

Quote from: The guy who I am thoroughly convinced is a Jєωιѕн shill, based on his tenacity against the Catholic Faith
Do those who HAVE the same faith as Abraham also worship the same God as us?

Yes.

And does everyone who claims to have the Faith of Abraham really have it?

No. And the Church did not say that they do. She only said that they profess to have it.

I agree the docuмent was poorly written and badly worded, but it is not heretical. If anything, it is favorable to heretics, but not heretical in itself.

CM · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:48:50 PM »

Yes, it is heretical, contrary to the dogmas of the Trinity and the Incarnation.

pax · « **Reply #12 on:** January 03, 2010, 06:20:46 PM »

Quote from: The Milksop

Yes, it is heretical, contrary to the dogmas of the Trinity and the Incarnation.

You have not proven either of those points. You have only shouted it loud and long hoping no one would notice you offer no proof.

CM · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2010, 07:15:45 PM »

Right. And your ability to reason first failed when?

Jacafamala · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2010, 03:46:33 AM »

It's not possible that the Muslims worship the same God as the Christians. The very idea of God becoming man is total blasphemy to the Muslims. So no, not the same god.