Author Topic: Chic to be a Catholic trad (Read 3092 times)

Wessex · « **on:** December 14, 2012, 04:58:25 AM »

I pinched this from Ignis Ardens. No mention of ABL; the sources are selective to create the desired political effect, of course. Worth reading the journal's blog though for some hard-hitting comments.

From The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/internationa...ist-avant-garde

Catholic Conservatives
A traditionalist avant-garde
It's trendy to be a traditionalist in the Catholic Church

SINCE the Second Vatican Council in 1962, the Roman Catholic church has striven to adapt to the modern world. But in the West—where many hoped a contemporary message would go down best—believers have left in droves. Sunday mass attendance in England and Wales has fallen by half from the 1.8m recorded in 1960; the average age of parishioners has risen from 37 in 1980 to 52 now. In America attendance has declined by over a third since 1960. Less than 5% of French Catholics attend regularly, and only 15% in Italy. Yet as the mainstream wanes, traditionalists wax.

Take the Latin mass, dumped by the Vatican in 1962 for liturgies in vernacular languages. In its most traditional form, the priest consecrates the bread and wine in a whisper with his back to the congregation: anathema to those who think openness is the spirit of the age. But Father John Zuhlsdorf, an American priest and blogger, says it challenges worshippers, unlike the cosy liberalism of the regular services. “It is not just a school assembly,” he says.

Others share his enthusiasm. The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales, started in 1965, now has over 5,000 members. The weekly number of Latin masses is up from 26 in 2007 to 157 now. In America it is up from 60 in 1991 to 420. At Brompton Oratory, a hotspot of London traditionalism, 440 flock to the main Sunday Latin mass. That is twice the figure for the main English one. Women sport mantillas (lace headscarves). Men wear tweeds.

But it is not a fogeys’ hangout: the congregation is young and international. Like evangelical Christianity, traditional Catholicism is attracting people who were not even born when the Second Vatican Council tried to rejuvenate the church. Traditionalist groups have members in 34 countries, including Hong Kong, South Africa and Belarus. Juventutem, a movement for young Catholics who like the old ways, boasts scores of activists in a dozen countries. Traditionalists use blogs, websites and social media to spread the word—and to highlight recalcitrant liberal dioceses and church administrators, who have long seen the Latinists as a self-indulgent, anachronistic and affected minority. In Colombia 500 people wanting a traditional mass had to use a community hall (they later found a church).

A big shift came in 2007 when Pope Benedict XVI formally endorsed the use of the old-rite Latin mass. Until that point, fondness for the traditional liturgy could blight a priest’s career. The cause has also received new vim from the Ordinariate, a Vatican-sponsored grouping for ex-Anglicans. Dozens of Anglican priests have “crossed the Tiber” from the heavily ritualistic “smells and bells” high-church wing; they find a ready welcome among traditionalist Roman Catholics.

The return of the old rite causes quiet consternation among more modernist Catholics. Timothy Radcliffe, once head of Britain’s Dominicans, sees in it “a sort of ‘Brideshead Revisited’ nostalgia”. The traditionalist revival, he thinks, is a reaction against the “trendy liberalism” of his generation. Some swings of pendulums may be inevitable. But for a church hierarchy in Western countries beset by scandal and decline, the rise of a traditionalist avant-garde is unsettling. Is it merely an outcrop of eccentricity, or a sign that the church took a wrong turn 50 years ago?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2012, 05:01:59 AM »

Let's not forget whose relatives have a large stake in the Economist.

Wessex · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2012, 06:05:18 AM »

You mean the family that now has shares in the SSPX? True .... and along with the Financial Times, the journal knows where its bread is buttered. Politically, it manages to bridge any liberal/neo-con gap (don't they all!) and another shot against the 'still too conservative' Church of Rome is par for the course if it can detect an opposing new trend that may have some economic value. There is a delicate reporting balance here though. I cannot see it exposing the Masonic/Judaic nature of Newchurch in a month of Sundays, traditional or otherwise!

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2012, 06:14:00 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Let's not forget whose relatives have a large stake in the Economist.

Bingo. That was my first thought. This is hardly an innocent article of interest - not in that publication - so what's the real agenda here?
I have my own theories, but would appreciate the greater wisdom of the forum.

Quote

I cannot see it exposing the Masonic/Judaic nature of Newchurch in a month of Sundays, traditional or otherwise!

True. Because in the end, they are of the same beast.
Thank you for the link, Wessex. Good stuff.

John Grace · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:10:59 AM »

Whilst I commend Elizabeth, many thanks to tele for stating this on IA.

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11576

Quote

Elizabeth, do you know who owns a large stake in the Economist? (hint - relatives to that Austrian family)

We don't need to be misrepresented.

This reminds me of the "Dan Rather reports" interview with Bishop Fellay. Who do you suppose had a hand in arranging that?

John Grace · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:18:21 AM »

I'm surprised the article didn't mention which Judge or barrister attends the 'extraordinary form'.

John Grace · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:20:42 AM »

Quote

No mention of ABL

Why would they? In Ireland the Irish Latin Mass Society certainly minimise the role Archbishop Lefebvre played. The Latin Mass Society in England and Wales are a bigger joke. Smells and bells brigades.

John Grace · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:39:49 AM »

Quote from: Wessex

You mean the family that now has shares in the SSPX? True .... and along with the Financial Times, the journal knows where its bread is buttered. Politically, it manages to bridge any liberal/neo-con gap (don't they all!) and another shot against the 'still too conservative' Church of Rome is par for the course if it can detect an opposing new trend that may have some economic value. There is a delicate reporting balance here though. I cannot see it exposing the Masonic/Judaic nature of Newchurch in a month of Sundays, traditional or otherwise!

Indeed. Getting to the root is necessary. It's a bit like conservative Zionist Catholic, David Quinn writing in the 'Irish Independent' newspaper. These folk never will go to the root of the crisis.

John Grace · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:40:54 AM »

Quote

Catholic Conservatives
A traditionalist avant-garde

Neo cons are the worst.

John Grace · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2012, 07:50:35 AM »

In England you have a Tory pro-sodomy group being set up. This is meant to be the Conservative party. How many Catholics still vote Tory? How many attend the 'Latin Mass'? Boris Johnson, Mayor of London is part of the group.

'Liars,buggers,murderers and thieves' is the modern day political class.

Traditionalists in England have supported Therese Coffey and others.

How many will be up in arms with David 'Moses' Cameron and the latest on queers?

John Grace · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2012, 08:00:14 AM »

Or have Catholics any comment on the Belgian Jєω, who had a nose reduction and adenoids removed so to appear less foreign stating how staying within the EU is in "our" national interest. I refer of course to Ed Miliband, leader of the Labour party in England.

John Grace · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2012, 10:33:50 AM »

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11576

Quote

Reading some of the comments to this article on the journal's blog, naivity knows no bounds in the case of the following:

"I should also mention that much credit is due here in England to the Latin Mass Society for its persistant campaigning over decades. Credit is also due to its sister organisations throughout the world, many of them members of the International Federation Una Voce. However, the greatest credit should go to our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI. I am sure that history will record him as one of the greatest popes of all time."

But so many who support the old liturgy want 'the best of both words' and will never decry V2. This tendecy has now arrived at the door of the Society.

Whilst I agree with Wessex, it's fair to point out Catholics are at different levels of awareness. The Latin Mass Society might be the initial introduction to the Traditional Mass. For a variety of reasons, the Latin Mass Society in Ireland has had a difficult relationship with International Federation Una Voce. The Latin Mass Society in England and Wales purged many pro-SSPX people a few years ago.

Usually a Traditional Mass is offered in places where the SSPX or an Independent chapel exists.

We don't owe Benedict XVI anything.

John Grace · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2012, 10:37:33 AM »

Quote

But so many who support the old liturgy want 'the best of both words' and will never decry V2

A few years ago, a lay man was informed at an Indult Mass that you get Vatican II here. He was told to go to the SSPX if he wanted something different. I'm open to correction but this anecdote featured in an Irish Catholic newspaper. The layman had complained the sermon heard at the Indult Mass was favourable to Vatican II teaching.

John Grace · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2012, 10:41:04 AM »

Advice I offer to people who still attend the Novus Ordo is "walk away". I don't understand this business of keeping a foot in both camps. I'm not suggesting to shun family members,friends etc etc who attend the Novus Ordo but best thing they can do is to walk away from it. Same for clergy.

Hozjusz · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2012, 11:44:56 AM »

:applause: Common sense haven't died.