Author Topic: Check out this wreckovation - looks like a Prot church (Read 8623 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #60 on:** December 04, 2014, 03:58:52 AM »

Quote from: andysloan

Stubborn said:

"Your indifference in the matter is bred in the NO. "

It is not a matter of indifference, it is about understanding and common-sense; your manner of approach has been seen before:

Yes, it is about understanding and common sense that the new "mass" mocks the True Mass - all anyone need do is compare the two and they cannot fail to see this. .

It is as Fr. Wathen said, "When you go to the new "mass," your habit is to see what is not there, you read meanings into words which the words you hear do not say, while you fail to advert to what the words do say."

andysloan · « **Reply #61 on:** December 04, 2014, 04:09:59 AM »

Stubborn - it is quite clear from my writings I understand the situation.

Yours is merely an effort to deflect that your holding to this false perspective, is nothing to do with Catholic integrity, but simply a matter of pride, for you use being a member of tradition as a badge of self-exaltation and fight tooth and nail to defend your fortress of vanity.

As the demon said:

"Never does such a condemnation of the New Mass have any place under the mantle of love of neighbor. And it should also be said that there are many “traditionalists” who are Pharisees."

Your "catholicism" is not true Catholicism, which is based on love of God and neighbour through penance and the cross. Like so many, it is based on hypocritical formalism.

"Excluded, then, from the company of the Friends of the Cross are those who take pride in their sufferings; the worldly-wise, the intellectuals and the sceptics who are attached to their own ideas and puffed up with their own talents. Away from you those endless talkers who make a great show but produce nothing but vanity. Away from you those so- called devout Catholics who in their pride display the self- sufficiency of proud Lucifer wherever they go, saying, "I am not like the rest of men;" who cannot endure being blamed without making some excuse, being attacked without answering back, being humbled without exalting themselves.No, no, my dear Companions of the Cross, do not deceive yourselves. Those Christians you see everywhere, fashionably dressed, fastidious in manner, full of importance and dignity, are not real disciples, real members of Christ crucified. To think they are would be an insult to our thorn-crowned Head and to the truth of the Gospel. How many so-called Christians imagine they are members of our Saviour when in reality they are his treacherous persecutors, for while they make the sign of the cross with their hand, in their hearts they are its enemies!"- St Father Montfort - Letter to the Friends of the Cross

http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/LFC.php

Stubborn · « **Reply #62 on:** December 04, 2014, 06:14:20 AM »

Quote from: andysloan

Stubborn - it is quite clear from my writings I understand the situation.

Yours is merely an effort to deflect that your holding to this false perspective, is nothing to do with Catholic integrity, but simply a matter of pride, for you use being a member of tradition as a badge of self-exaltation and fight tooth and nail to defend your fortress of vanity.

Afraid not Andy. The truth is as Fr. Wathen stated. You do not see the tragedy because you accept the tragedy as acceptable and the longer you go, the less you will see it. That's how it works.

Quote from: andysloan

As the demon said:

"Never does such a condemnation of the New Mass have any place under the mantle of love of neighbor. And it should also be said that there are many “traditionalists” who are Pharisees."

Although the demon rejoices over the new "mass" because of what it is and has accomplished, and although you'll never find any other saint or Father of the Church to say anything other than condemning the evil thing, try to avoid quoting demons to support the new "mass" - it does your cause no good.

Quote from: andysloan

Your "catholicism" is not true Catholicism, which is based on love of God and neighbour through penance and the cross. Like so many, it is based on hypocritical formalism.

Yes, I agree, the formalism of the Mass is to be found in it's origins, rituals and rubrics, right down to telling the priest which thumb goes over the other when praying hands are joined.

Unlike the new "mass" which "has no strictly defined ceremony, ritual, or formula. It is a kind of formless, spiritual essence, like a ghost (or something else invisible). It can only be seen when it is covered, and can be covered with first this set of rites, then that. It does not really matter which set is used, although a set should be chosen which is expressive to the men of a given time-period. (A Modernist notion if there ever was one!)" - Fr. Wathen

andysloan · « **Reply #63 on:** December 04, 2014, 08:01:28 AM »

Your writings do not deal with the reasoned acceptability of attendance of the NO, which is the subject matter of the discussion. Rather, you simply uphold the Latin Mass, asserting that any departure from it cannot be entertained. That is your opinion and your reasoning is at fault, because you wish not to recognise that the primary identity of a Mass is the offering of the atoning sacrifice of Christ, and this is performed at the NO.

Why does quoting the demon do my case no good?

True devotion to Mary - St Father Montfort

"One is recorded in the chronicles of St. Francis. The saint saw in ecstasy an immense ladder reaching to heaven, at the top of which stood the Blessed Virgin. This is the ladder, he was told, by which we must all go to heaven.

Here is another related in the Chronicles of St. Dominic. Near Carcassonne, where St. Dominic was preaching the Rosary, there was an unfortunate heretic who was possessed by a multitude of devils. These evil spirits to their confusion were compelled at the command of our Lady to confess many great and consoling truths concerning devotion to her. They did this so clearly and forcibly that, however weak our devotion to our Lady may be, we cannot read this authentic story containing such an unwilling tribute paid by the devils to devotion to our Lady without shedding tears of joy.

Moreover, God has given Mary such great power over the evil spirits that, as they have often been forced unwillingly to admit through the lips of possessed persons, they fear one of her pleadings for a soul more than the prayers of all the saints, and one of her threats more than all their other torments."

Perhaps you ought to investigate and pray about the authenticity of the revelations.

The book essentially exposes the remarks and gestures made by a possessed woman in Switzerland during 1975‑1978. Speaking through the possessed woman, the demons were forced to tell the truth by Our Lady under the Solemn Church Exorcism, which was witnessed by the following priests who have all expressed their conviction of the authenticity of the revelations made by the demons upon the order of the Blessed Virgin.

1. Abbot Albert‑l`Arx, Niederbuchorten

2. Abbot Arnold Elig, Ramiswil

3. Abbot Ernest Fischer, Missionary, Gossau (St.‑Gall).

4. Rev. Father Pius Gervasi, O.S.B., Disentis

5. Abbot Karl Holdener, Ried

6. Rev. Father Gregoire Meyer, ‑ Trimbach

7. Rev. Father Robert Rinderer, C.P.P.S., Auw

8. Abbot Louis Veillard, Cerneux‑Pequignot

All eight priests are Swiss, except Father E. Fischer, a German. All participated in the exorcisms except Father G. Meyer who was spiritual director of the possessed woman. Two other French priests also participated in the exorcisms.

Your is not just a matter of faulty opinion, rather it is a spiritual blindness caused by your vanity and elitism.

Stubborn · « **Reply #64 on:** December 04, 2014, 09:04:14 AM »

Quote from: andysloan

Your writings do not deal with the reasoned acceptability of attendance of the NO, which is the subject matter of the discussion. Rather, you simply uphold the Latin Mass, asserting that any departure from it cannot be entertained. That is your opinion and your reasoning is at fault, because you wish not to recognise that the primary identity of a Mass is the offering of the atoning sacrifice of Christ, and this is performed at the NO.

It is not only my opinion, it is the Law of the Church - since you won't listen to the recordings, you should read about it. It's a short read and easily understood.

Briefly, God told the Fathers of Trent how He wants to be worshiped in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (22nd session), some 400 years later, man replaced what God wanted with the new "mass" and ended up telling God how He will be worshiped. You see nothing wrong with this even though it is a sacrilege. I say the reason you promote sacrilege is because you've been bred to do so within the NO, you cannot see the forest for the trees because you are accustomed to participating in the sacrilege - same as a person who lives in filth is so accustomed to the filth that to them, it's not filth.

So yes, I hold that any departure from the form God told us to worship Him cannot be entertained without committing sacrilege and offending Him.