Author Topic: Question For Sedevacantists ONLY (Read 2173 times)

Alexandria · « **Reply #15 on:** April 06, 2010, 12:18:13 PM »

Thank you, Gladius.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #16 on:** April 06, 2010, 06:45:31 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Quote from: Ladislaus
Well, there are in fact actually a small handful of Pius XII bishops still around.

Where?!

Granted, all but two are "Emeriti". And the bishop at the top of the list disappeared in China and is probably dead, so he retains his title out of deference to him.

That would leave only Kalata who's not an Emeritus. But Kalata didn't receive a See until decades later, though Pius XII certainly granted him personal jurisdiction for the work he was doing. And Cardinal Sfeir goes back to the John XXIII days.

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/sordb2.html

Ladislaus · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:03:36 PM »

Quote

The duration of designation to receive papal jurisdiction. The designation to office endures until (1) the death of the subject; (2) the voluntary refusal or resignation of the subject; (3) the removal of the designation from the subject by him who has the right to do so.

There is no other way of losing the designation. Although there is no authority which is able to judge the pope, nevertheless the body of electors is able to take away from him the designation. For the designation comes from God only mediately, but immediately from the electors. For which reason, it is not beyond the rights of the electors of the pope to ascertain the fact of the loss of jurisdiction in an elected pope, or also his lack of disposition to receiving papal authority.

So Bishop Sanborn's explanation leads to papa haereticus ipso facto formaliter depositus, materialiter ab Ecclesia deponendus. Interesting.

But he would also rule out actual jurisdiction persisting through the heretics, though a potential jurisdiction would perdure, and any member of the current hierarchy who's not a heretic would also have formal jurisdiction. I wonder if Bishop Sanborn would allow for the existence of any of these. So if you can find a single member of the current hierarchy (validly consecrated of course) who's not a formal heretic, he would have jurisdiction via Benedict XVI.

Quote

Therefore he who is designated to the papacy, even if he does not receive authority, because of an obstacle either of heresy or of refusal of episcopal consecration or for any other reason, nevertheless he is able to nominate others to receive authority, (e.g., bishops) and even electors of the pope, because all these acts pertain merely to the continuation of the material part of authority, and do not involve jurisdiction, because in nomination no law is made. Nomination or designation is merely a preparation, and remote indeed, for the making of law.

This definitely make a lot of sense to me.

http://www.sodalitiumpianum.com/index.php?pid=27

Alexandria · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2010, 07:56:50 PM »

What are you getting at, Ladislaus?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2010, 08:12:47 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria

What are you getting at, Ladislaus?

That jurisdiction could still have passed on through heretical popes based on the sedeprivationist thesis.