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Author Topic: Challenge for SVs  (Read 10568 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Challenge for SVs
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2024, 06:22:05 AM »
I remember watching this many years ago...



Dimonds did an expose of Paul VI and I remember them doing a similar expose on John XXIII but I can't find it on their JuTube channel. 

Right, but these heresies are all dated to after Montini’s election, and the Brothers refer to the Siri Theory at the beginning of this video.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Challenge for SVs
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2024, 06:24:24 AM »
Father Cekada did not qualify his opinion as referring to just Ratzinger and Bergoglio, and made it sound like it was a matter of principle.  When I have a chance, I’ll find the citation.  It’s in his “Dead on Arrival” refutation of Salza and Siscoe.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Challenge for SVs
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2024, 06:51:05 AM »
Maybe Ladislaus is gaslighting us! 😂

Nonsense.  I'm surprised that I know more about what Father Cekada has said than those who hang off his every word.



5:17 - 5:45 ... Father Cekada categorically applies "the white-cassocked Conciliar heresiarchs" as a matter or principle or their general "argument", saying they were never true popes in the first place.  He could have said that they don't hold that it applies to "all" of the Conciliar papal claimants, just to some, but he made a categorical statement that made it sound like a matter of principle or argument.  He pushed aside a huge part of Salza & Siscoe as simply not applying, but he would have had to address it for the likes of the earlier Conciliar papal claimants even if it didn't apply to the current one.

20:54 "A Zombie Argument" 

21:32 -- "... sedevacantists no longer believe Bergoglio, Ratzinger, JP2 and the rest ever became true popes in the first place"

There you have it.  Gaslighting, eh?

In any case, if it didn't apply to Montini, Father was not entitled to sweep away the S&S argument because he'd still have to address it vis-a-vis Montini, but he brushed the entire thing off the table by simply saying they no longer believe they were ever true popes in the first place.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Challenge for SVs
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2024, 06:52:00 AM »
So, then, back to the question, I've never seen anything that Montini said before Vatican II that was heretical.  In fact, I don't recall anything Montini ever said before Vatican II period.

Offline Yeti

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Re: Challenge for SVs
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2024, 09:06:58 AM »
So, then, back to the question, I've never seen anything that Montini said before Vatican II that was heretical.  In fact, I don't recall anything Montini ever said before Vatican II period.
.

I think you answered your own question. I have never seen a biography of Montini. I had never seen a biography of Roncalli until Bellegrande's book, and it was clear from his book that Roncalli was an open communist for his entire life. If someone wrote a biography of Montini, it seems likely the picture would be similar.

Otherwise, we would have to say that these people's election to the papacy turned them from faithful Catholics into raging heretics, which is the opposite of Christ's promise to the Church. I don't see any way around this.