Author Topic: Censured on CA for Opus Dei Post... (Read 4595 times)

stevusmagnus · « **on:** November 18, 2010, 03:43:23 PM »

I find this comical...

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Dear stevusmagnus,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Uncharitable Post(s)
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You are deliberately maligning the good name of a canonically established institute making all kinds of accusations. This is a violation of charity and justice. Everyone and every institute has the right to its good name, especially when their way of life and their work are approved by the Church.

I am deleting your post and you may NEVER post on this subject again, since it is obvious that you cannot do so without doing harm. If you truly believe any of this to be true, please write to the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life or the Sacred Congregation for the Faith and file a formal complaint.

Thank you

Moderator

"Deliberate maligning" & "violation of charity and justice"??

Judge for yourself...

"Opus Dei's work, in the end, is futile because they refuse to see the problems in the NO Mass and the "New Theology". They embrace both wholeheartedly out of fierce "obedience" yet they couple it with very strict mortifications and Traditional acts of piety. Their priest wear cassocks etc. In the end they are a living contradiction. The Traditional piety attracts conservative Novus Ordinarians, but the theology and Mass keeps them from being truly fed.

Then add the very odd notion of having a lifelong "vocation" to be a layman, giving all of your salary to OD and living in a house with others who do the same. I must admit the financial plan of OD was genius, whether is was diabolical or not is another question. They are always loaded with $ this way, plus they always have a large stable of professional celibate men who they can tap to get ordained when they need priests. It is a perfect situation for them.

Then their cooperators, who can be anyone, even non-Christian, can attend OD functions as long as they donate $.

They have many enterprises out there that are discreetly named. But it seems that they are more motivated in recruiting for Opus Dei than recruiting people to the faith. They seem to be about self-perpetuation. I've read their schools look to groom youngsters to become celibate lay numeraries. $$$

Of course they preach work, work, work. The more their numeraries work, the more $ they get. "Sanctify your work" is not an Opus Dei idea, though they will claim it. But I'm skeptical as to their intentions with this. They are all about work, their centers are very posh, I have read they tell their married members to treat OD like another child as far as expenses go.

Their priests are orthodox when it comes to morality. In theology they are by the book VCII. And they say the N.O. Mass "reverently". They seem to basically be selling faithful Catholics who are fed up with their lib parishes a conservative "product". They then subvert vocations to the religious life by selling the idea you can have a "vocation" (you are holy and special and part of an "order") yet you can keep your job and still be secular. The best of both worlds!

The whole thing seems like a big pyramid scheme to me. Their writings only seem to be helpful to some degree when speaking on general virtues and morality. When it comes to theology and the crisis in the Church their writings are completely uninspiring. Their theology is straight out of VCII (with a conservative spin) and their solution to the crisis is to sanctify ourselves and do more penance. They only see the crisis as a general crisis of Faith in society. They see absolutely no connection between the crisis and the Mass and the Council. They can't even if they wanted to. Because if they did, they would lose their legal status and thus lose their very large recruiting pool.

My experience has been their members are hopelessly naive when it comes to any problems or negativity. They preach "holy cheerfulness" which often means an almost forced optimism that admits of absolutely no criticism or negativity about the Church. Everything is perpetually hunky dory and if it is not it is because they aren't doing enough penance.

It is a great contrast to Traditional groups who are a lot more straightforward and "get it" having sacrificed a lot monetarily and otherwise to follow the Truth where it lead them and not cash in on the crisis by manufacturing a conservative NO product within the VCII structure to lure in the disillusioned"

Alexandria · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2010, 03:48:42 PM »

What you wrote is very true and very well written. But you are not dealing with normal people on CAF. No crisis exist in their minds, just a few corners left to be ironed out, but all is well and getting better by the week.

How many times have you been either banned or infracted there? Why do you even bother throwing your pearls before swine? Let them be. They are and choose to be willfully ignorant.

Leave them in their cotton candy cloud.

:soapbox:

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2010, 04:02:24 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria

What you wrote is very true and very well written. But you are not dealing with normal people on CAF. No crisis exist in their minds, just a few corners left to be ironed out, but all is well and getting better by the week.

Leave them in their cotton candy cloud.

:soapbox:

:applause:

Catholic Samurai · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2010, 04:05:18 PM »

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...............

You are deliberately maligning the good name of a canonically established institute making all kinds of accusations. ......

Opus Dei IS NOT A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION! IT IS A LAY ORGANIZATION!

Speaking of Opus Dei, my father was actually invited to join years and years ago. He didnt walk away but ran from the offer because he found out that they allowed openly ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ individuals to become members.

Alexandria · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2010, 04:18:42 PM »

I just remembered something. I listened to Catholic Answers for years as I was trying desperately to fit myself back into the novus ordo church. Toward the end of my failed experiment, I started to get the impression that Catholic Answers was affiliated with Opus Dei. By that I mean, that many of their guests and "resident apologists", as well as their past host, were OD members.

Caminus · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2010, 04:37:01 PM »

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especially when their way of life and their work are approved by the Church.

Which magically bestows infallibility to the existence and work of the order. Of course, tell that to St. Francis, St. Catherine of Sienna, etc. etc. etc. Church approval is the cloak under which they hide, both the order as well as the naive defender; it's an frame of mind that is impenetrable because it based on the loss of understanding the essences of things.

LM · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2010, 06:20:00 PM »

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especially when their way of life and their work are approved by the Church.

Those CA people turn a blind eye and deaf ear to the fact that in the current Church, "approval by the Church" does not in any way or form, speak to/and or validate the orthodoxy of a group, movement, etc. The Neocatechumenal heresy, which has the capacity to make the Arian heresy look minor, has been "approved by the Church".

Alexandria · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2010, 06:28:09 PM »

I don't think that this ending paragraph gained you any brownie points with CA since the moderator may have thought you were referring to CA:

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It is a great contrast to Traditional groups who are a lot more straightforward and "get it" having sacrificed a lot monetarily and otherwise to follow the Truth where it lead them and not cash in on the crisis by manufacturing a conservative NO product within the VCII structure to lure in the disillusioned"

[/b]

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2010, 06:28:16 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria

What you wrote is very true and very well written. But you are not dealing with normal people on CAF. No crisis exist in their minds, just a few corners left to be ironed out, but all is well and getting better by the week.

You are exactly right. They act as if all is well in the Church, a state of delusion, I suppose. They act as if all "approved" organizations are basically all orthodox as if this were the time of Pius X, and how dare we criticize them for any faults.

Do they allow ANY criticism of "approved" organizations? I suppose they would have censured testimony from those in the Legionary who told of bad practices before the word came out about their founder?

You are correct. It is chosen ignorance.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2010, 06:33:35 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

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especially when their way of life and their work are approved by the Church.

Which magically bestows infallibility to the existence and work of the order. Of course, tell that to St. Francis, St. Catherine of Sienna, etc. etc. etc. Church approval is the cloak under which they hide, both the order as well as the naive defender; it's an frame of mind that is impenetrable because it based on the loss of understanding the essences of things.

Exactly. "Approval" automatically equals "good, edifying, & holy". Therefore any criticism of anything "approved" is uncharitable, malicious, unjust, etc.

The irony is, by their own logic, if this SAME exact "something" becomes disapproved, it then automatically becomes "evil, schismatic, error, dangerous." They have an absolute inability to break from their legal positivism. It totally escapes them that they base their whole notion of Truth on legislative accidents instead of essences.

These are the same types who railed against girl altar boys before they were "approved" and then all of a sudden defended the practice.

Alexandria · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2010, 06:40:05 PM »

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2010, 06:53:20 PM »

Check out this gem....

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Okay. Let me respectfully dissent.

I have watched many hours of EWTN - and still do. But I see it as the 'Old Guard' within Catholicism. Much that is good is presented, but the overall impression I get is that the Church needs to remain pat, resist any and all change, and even turn the clock back aways.

Let me cite three programs that trouble me. One is 'Women of Grace'. I know the women leader means well, but she is too dogmatic. I have been especially perturbed by those guests who have so strongly condemned other groups. Take the Masons. I'm not interested in defending the Masons, but why alienate so many by launching such questionable attacks on them? These accusations may have been justified in Europe 200-300 years ago, but we live in the USA in 2010, and the Masons are among our leading citizens and they do wonderful work through their 22 Shriner Hospitals and other humanitarian efforts. And they take, for example, children of any faith, whether or not the families can pay, and for however long it takes to heal them. They should be respected instead of attacked so viciously.

Second, "Journey Home". I know the host tries to sound moderate, but most of the time it is bent on not-so-subtly assailing Protestantism in one form or another. Gosh, the Reformation happened nearly 500 years ago. We live in an ecuмenical age. Since Vatican II there has been a new sense of fellowship among most Christians. Why mess it up by featuring those who leave one Christian group for another? Besides, around here at least, there seems to be a major exodus from Catholicism. especially to evangelical groups. And a number of their prominent ministers are former Catholics.

Third, Fr. Corapi. Yes, I know. He tells it like it is. And he tries to sound humble. And he's a powerful speaker with an agile mind and a large supply of knowledge. But I hear, also, an arrogance that can sound offensive. He preaches the old Catholicism that emphasized unquestioning obedience to the Church. Hey, we live in 2010 and Americans are much better educated and most of them, especially the young, are turned off when they are told that they must obey Mother Church. He doesappeal to the militants who place their tribal loyalty above everything, but this can be alienating, too. At least to me. I much prefer, say, a Fr. Benedict and others. Oh, I'm not all that swayed by Scott Hahn. He certainly can pour forth with doctrines and history, but .... well, again, too dogmatic for me.

We need to understand that his world is a big place, maybe a billion solar systems, and certainly filled with magnificence and majesty and mystery. We need to be tolerant of those who can't accept each and every story they hear on EWTN. When I hear the Lords, for example, and some of the miracles they attribute to various saints I want to cry out: "Please, give me a break!" St. Padre Pio levitated and bilocated? I have trouble with tales like that, and I suspect that millions in the Church feel as I do.

Catholicism needs to provide a big tent, allowing more freedom when it comes to some matters of doctrine.

In conclusion, I chatted with two priests fairly recently. I mentioned EWTN, just to get their reaction. One said he never watched it. He was embarrassed by it and wish it would go away. The other said whenever he watched it he had trouble sleeping that night!

Oh, nothing personal in this. I certainly respect the devotion and diligence and creativity of Mother Angelica, but I must, in all honesty, question the overall tenor of EWTN. It could present such a positive view of Catholicism instead of spending so much time sounding defensive and arbitrary.

Alexandria · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2010, 07:38:26 PM »

Stevus, that says it all. That is your Catholic Answers crowd in a single post. They have rendered anything resembling the Church Militant to be as effective as a wet noodle with thinking like.

Nor does it surprise me that the poster finds Fr. Benedict Groeschel more to his liking.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2010, 07:59:47 PM »

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too dogmatic for me.

Are people who speak of dogmas "too dogmatic" - or is it simply a matter of not accepting dogma, refusing to accept that others should accept dogma?

LM · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2010, 08:20:15 PM »

Here's one from a CA "apologist". Who needs to become Catholic, when the Church is passing her grace/salvation around with no need of commitment to the Faith.

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Topic: Can Jєωs get into heaven as Jєωs?

Question:
Can faithful Jєωs get into heaven, even if they remain Jєωs?

"Apologist's" response:

All who get to heaven do so through Jesus Christ and his Church. How Christ applies the grace of salvation to non-Christians who were unable to believe in him in this life, we do not know. All we do know is that he can do so, provided the non-Christian does not deliberately spurn God's grace. It is the deliberate refusal of salvation that sends a person to hell, not remaining faithful to what he honestly believes to be true.