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Author Topic: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics  (Read 542 times)

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Offline ElwinRansom1970

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Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
« on: April 27, 2025, 09:50:12 AM »
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  • During this crisis in the Church, we often focus on heresy and scandal, sacrilege and blasphemy when addressing issues connected to the crisis. Yet we can often overlook fundamental, pragmatic concerns.

    Here is a BIG pragmatic concern:  WHERE ARE WE TRADITIONAL CATHOLICS TO BE BURIED?

    Here I am thinking within the context of the USA and Canada.

    I live in a diocese with many Catholic cemeteries. Most are controlled by a central corporation connected to the Novus Ordo diocese; others are connected to Eastern Catholic eparchies. Traditional Catholics have been buried in the cemeteries controlled by the Novus Ordo establishment -- my own parents have both been buried in such a cemetery.

    However, there is a background story to trads being buried in these cemeteries. Decades back, burial in these cemeteries was denied to trads who had died. These denials of burial were sometimes very nasty. This policy loosened in the 1990s through what seemed to be primarily financial concerns -- more bodies equals more money. Nevertheless, at any time, a return to the older "no-trads" policy could happen.

    Going beyond this, cemeteries are consecrated ground. I so often see sacrilegious and irreligious activity in the supposedly Catholic cemeteries (those of the Novus Ordo, rarely in the Eastern Catholic), some that would warrant a reconsecration of the cemetery. These are not environments suitable for the interment of Catholic remains.

    This returns us to the question: Where are Traditional Catholics to be buried?

    Ladislaus' thread on the numbers at the North America SSPX seminary drove my thoughts in this direction since that thread has included reflections on the Dominican cemetery located at the old Winona location.

    For persons associated with the SSPX, how much money has been dumped into the new Virginia seminary that could have purchased land parcels across North America suitable for trad cemeteries, places where we could be interred in holiness and in property piety for the dead.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #1 on: April 27, 2025, 11:27:18 AM »
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  • I don't know the requirements to be buried there, but there is a lot of room in that Dominican cemetery, and at the new seminary. The new seminary has plenty of room for expanding the cemetery.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline moneil

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #2 on: April 27, 2025, 11:56:38 AM »
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  • This is a valuable topic, and one's final arrangements are always best dealt with ahead of time rather than at the time of need.

    I will be mentioning information from diocesan parishes and cemeteries.  I'm not meaning to offend anyone, these are just what I'm familiar with, and the information may be useful to traditional chapels considering a cemetery.

    Four generations of my family are at Holy Cross Cemetery in Spokane (Diocese of Spokane), where my plot is also.  Other family are at Calvary and Holy Rood (Archdiocese of Seattle).  I was surprised at the OP's comment that those who attended a traditionalist chapel were once denied burial in Catholic (diocesan) cemeteries.  It's not my place to question his memory, I can't imagine it was very common if the person already owned their plot and/or had other family there.  As for "sacrilegious and irreligious activity in the supposedly Catholic cemeteries", I've NEVER seen that in my 73 years, so I doubt it is very common.

    The small rural parish I grew up in in eastern Washington (established 1964, previously we were a mission of St. Patrick's in Pasco and had Sunday Mass in the public school cafeteria) from its beginning had plans for a cemetery on the parish grounds.  Two or three times when the idea was explored it was discovered that the water table was too high and they couldn't get a permit for in-ground burials, somewhat like the situation in New Orleans.  They are now planning on a mausoleum.  While there is a construction cost, mausoleums are very simple buildings with little or no maintenance, unlike a cemetery with lawns and other landscaping that needs to be irrigated and tended to.  If there are chapel members with masonry and concrete skills the chapel might build one themselves.  Plus, six crypts (typical height) occupy the space of one (or two, with double depth internment) ground burial spaces, so much less land is needed. 

    When there isn't a Catholic cemetery close by, or when there isn't land for or it's not practical to have a parish or chapel cemetery, I know of situations where the parish has made an arrangement with an existing non-sectarian cemetery (municipal, non-profit, or a business) to develop an available section of the cemetery as a Catholic section.  The section would be consecrated according to the ritual of the Church, and only those qualified to be buried in a Catholic cemetery would be interred in that section.  Catholic religious art, even an outdoor altar for Mass, is often included.  This may be a practical consideration for traditional chapels. 

    The CMRI has a beautiful cemetery at Mount St. Michael's in Spokane, and I believe they have established cemeteries at other places, so it is a practice that traditionalist chapels have followed.    Burial of the dead is one of the corporal works of mercy and the Church has, when possible, provided for the burial of the faithful departed in consecrated ground.
       



    Offline FarmerWife

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #3 on: April 27, 2025, 12:20:20 PM »
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  • Can you be buried on your own land if you or family member owns alot of it? 

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #4 on: April 27, 2025, 12:33:22 PM »
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  • This is a good topic to debate.

    In Louisville, KY there's a cemetery originally called "St. Michael - Gottes Acker" meaning "God's Acre", containing Catholic tombstones dating to the 1750's.  It was officially established by the Diocese in 1851.

    It uses 48 acres and has approximately 40,000 burials.  Many Holy religious buried there, including a martyr Chaplain priest from the Korean War and a virtual army of Ursuline Nuns.



    The problem is, the consiliar bishops have allowed for non-Catholics and even Freemasons to be buried there.

    I actually had a conversation with the cemetery director, who told me the masonic grave plots are smaller than the Catholic ones.  He's trained his grounds crew on the specifications for digging the masonically approved grave-holes  :facepalm:

    These desecrations of the consecrated cemetery grounds are quite disturbing.
    But consider, that over time, any cemetery is subject to the same violation of consecrated land.

    Only after the Chastisement and the coming "Reign of Mary", will the jews and consiliarists be run off and our cemeteries, exhumed of non-Catholics and re-consecrated.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline moneil

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #5 on: April 27, 2025, 12:51:32 PM »
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  • Can you be buried on your own land someone owns alot of it?
    In the United States these matters are regulated by each individual state, and sometimes local regulations apply also, so it depends on where you live.  As one drives around the dryland wheat farms in southeastern Washington state many small family cemetery plots can be seen, usually from the late 19th to early 20th century.  A visit to a local funeral home may be a source of information.  Your Canadian province likely has a cemetery or funeral and cemetery board which handles this.  I don't know where in Canada you live, but as an example, here is information for Alberta: https://open.alberta.ca/publications/cemeteries-and-burials-in-alberta .

    Some may chafe at the idea of the government regulating what can happen on one's own land, but there are practical considerations.  Few would want to buy a house only to find bodies from the previous owner's family buried in the back yard.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #6 on: April 27, 2025, 05:40:33 PM »
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  • The parishioners at my chapel are usually buried in Novus Ordo cemeteries. I think there was one person who died many years ago who was denied burial there, but I don't remember why or what was different about him.

    You can always threaten to sue for religious discrimination. It helps to have a lawyer in the parish who can help make such threats. That often does the trick, as it is easier for them just to let you bury the person there.

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #7 on: April 27, 2025, 06:00:10 PM »
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  • Few would want to buy a house only to find bodies from the previous owner's family buried in the back yard.

    Pretty much agree, although for 18 years, my parents lived on land that contained a privately owned and abandoned family cemetery plot with a dozen, possibly 13 bodies. The section of land with the cemetery fell under a state conservation estuary rule where it could not be altered, built upon, divided, or in any way parceled out.  Out of basic respect, my Dad went to the town archives, obtained paperwork and a map, and started trimming back thick foliage, weeding before realizing the physical labor was too much. He hired two Catholic day workers (probably illegal), to assist him. They left the sizable trees, clipped back or removed brush and shrubs, lots of poison ivy, righted and repaired three toppled and cracked headstones. Dad cleaned off the moss, lichens, dirt with water and a scrub brush. A crude fence of pine branches, logs, and brush was erected around the plot. Dad made a simple sign indicating the family name from the archives. He posted that, said prayers, placed flowers at each grave from time to time. He never asked permission or made public his activities. (To avoid expensive bureaucracy, legal entanglements, and so on.) Unless the state, township, or new owners have kept the place up, it has probably returned to its wild state by now. Yes, my parents knew about the plot when they bought the land. No, they are not buried there. 

    If they had not been in the military, I would have tried to #1, inter them in Calvary Cemetery in NYC as we have ancestors in different sections. It’s an absolutely huge burial ground, run by the Diocese of Brooklyn. Mom was born in Brooklyn, Dad in Queens. #2 Choice would have been in one of two Long Island Catholic cemeteries, the preferred still run by the Diocese of Brooklyn, the other by the Diocese of Rockville Center. Since they were still registered as belonging to a novus ordo parish, this may have been a help or hinderance.  #3 Choice would have been a well kept local non-sectarian public cemetery overlooking the Long Island Sound. In all three cases, I’d have had the priest who gave them Last Rites bless the graves. 
    Fortunately, none of this was needed as they already had a guaranteed grave in a local Veteran’s Cemetery. It was simply a matter of choosing the mode of interment, type of plaque, and what was written on it. The VA was accommodating and professional. They allowed the priest to personally bless the grave prior to burial, although due to c-sickness restrictions still in effect, we were not permitted to participate. We chose the standard coffin burial with white military headstone, engraved on either side. (Other choices were burial underground, either in coffin or urn, with a flat metal plaque, or cremation niche with engraved wall memorial, indoors or outdoors. My sister left the Faith years ago, but has retained a degree of what is proper. We both agreed upon wanting a standard in ground burial with standing headstone. Neither of us believes in cremation.)  

    Now, c o u l d  we have buried them in the back yard of our childhood home?  Not legally, I don’t think. If the area were still truly rural as it was in 1956, it may well have been possible to have a family plot if three and 1/4 acres was enough land. Now? While a three + acre plot against a skinny 1/16 acre wildlife easement is larger and more private than the surrounding community, who’d want in the future to buy a suburban home with somebody’s grandparents buried in the back yard?  Whenever, whomever sells the house would probably require our descendants to dig them up for burial elsewhere, or end up in an urn from Amazon Prime, on the mantelpiece!  
    There are plenty of pets buried in that backyard! Two dogs, Ensign, a lab mutt mix, Prince, a Weimaraner, cats, Hilda Puss, Hep Smith, Buttons, Friar Tuck, Dusty, Mr. Kitty, Pumpkin, Riley, Lover Boy, Felice, rabbits, Mustachio, Harry, budgies, Bugler, Pistachio, Loretta, assorted fish, Goldie, Mr. Black, Mrs. Goggle, Santa Claus, et. al. Sally the salamander, two newts, Dottie and Mr. Green, a garter snake, Gertrude, a couple of crayfish whose names I don’t recall, several mice, Stuart, Pinky, and three guinea pigs, Pepper, Ginger, and Cinnamon.    
     


    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #8 on: April 27, 2025, 06:17:51 PM »
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  • Bishop Roy (Dolan line) has a cemetery outside his chapel in New Brunswick, Canada. 

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #9 on: April 27, 2025, 06:30:30 PM »
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  • ARE there any specifically traditional Catholic cemeteries?  Where?  

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #10 on: April 27, 2025, 06:44:24 PM »
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  • Few would want to buy a house only to find bodies from the previous owner's family buried in the back yard.
    .

    Meh, I probably wouldn't worry about something like this. It adds a bit of character and history to the place, anyway! And you could probably get your daily plenary indulgence during the week after All Souls' Day just by going out and praying in your backyard. How cool is that! :laugh1:


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #11 on: April 27, 2025, 07:05:45 PM »
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  • .

    Meh, I probably wouldn't worry about something like this. It adds a bit of character and history to the place, anyway! And you could probably get your daily plenary indulgence during the week after All Souls' Day just by going out and praying in your backyard. How cool is that! :laugh1:
    Exactly! My Dad and I enjoyed taking mini-hikes to the old cemetery. The people buried there were Protestant, most with the locally common last names Horsy, (Haresy), and Smith. 

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #12 on: April 27, 2025, 10:51:51 PM »
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  • ARE there any specifically traditional Catholic cemeteries?  Where? 
    The poster just before you in reply #8 mentions one in Canada.  In my earlier reply I mentioned the cemetery at Mount St. Michael's in Spokane (CMRI).  That is where former poster Myrna Migala and her husband are buried.  I believe the CMRI has cemeteries and some of their other chapels, but I couldn't find a list.

    Offline justG

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #13 on: April 28, 2025, 12:00:05 AM »
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  • St. Isidore's in Denver has a cemetery.  

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Cemeteries for Traditional Catholics
    « Reply #14 on: April 28, 2025, 05:27:19 AM »
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  • The CMRI has a beautiful cemetery at Mount St. Michael's in Spokane, and I believe they have established cemeteries at other places, so it is a practice that traditionalist chapels have followed.     
    Good to know.  I wonder whether the New Hampshire/Maine chapels have one.

    Excellent topic, OP.