Author Topic: Catholics awakening to Tradition on daily basis (Read 7456 times)

Matthew · « **on:** December 25, 2012, 07:43:43 PM »

I just spoke with a man at my Traditional chapel -- he's been Trad for about 3 1/2 years.

Very serious about his Faith; very anxious to talk about what he's discovered with others.

He is listening to tapes by a Fr. Hesse (sp?) who discusses Quo Primum, etc.

Anyhow, he is completely against the new SSPX orientation with Rome. In short, he has his finger on the pulse of the Faith and the Truth. He's a Trad of the first order, in other words. He is wiser and more in tune with the Truth than many long-time Trads!

And three and a half years ago, he was still Novus Ordo! But obviously not of bad will. Everyone should remember that for next time, when you're about to condemn everyone in the Novus Ordo to Hell, or call them all "Protestant".

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** December 25, 2012, 07:47:55 PM »

I've said this before, so I'd like to say it again.

The Novus Ordo or Conciliar Church has an official name: The Roman Catholic Church.

Look it up in any encyclopedia that you trust -- the Roman Catholic Church was founded in the year 0 by Jesus Christ. Catholics are taught to believe that the Catholic Church is the One True Church.

The same can't be said for any Protestant sect. This is a crucial difference between the Conciliar Church and any Protestant sect (Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, etc.)

Sure, the "service" is similar, but even that isn't 100% the same. The Novus Ordo still uses plenty of Catholic trappings, which is calculated to deceive. Sure, there are some who want to be deceived. But not all.

So next time you write off all Novus Ordo Catholics as "so many Protestants", you should stop yourself and give them an ounce of credit. After all, your Novus Ordo family and friends at least see the words "Roman Catholic" on their Church building every Sunday, where they attend something called a "Mass". And it IS true that the Roman Catholic Church is the One True Church.

So they might be trying to do the right thing.

You shouldn't assume that everyone sees things as clearly as YOU do. Because many of them don't.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:08:52 PM »

Quote

the Novus Ordo or Conciliar Church has an official name: The Roman Catholic Church.

edit: okay, I see what you're getting at.

Matthew, to say "the Conciliar Church" is the "Catholic Church" doesn't make sense.

Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre

We are suspended a divinis by the Conciliar Church and for the Conciliar Church, to
which we have no wish to belong. That Conciliar Church is a schismatic Church, because it breaks with the Catholic Church that has always been. It has its new dogmas, its new
priesthood, its new institutions, its new worship, all already condemned by the Church
in many a docuмent, official and definitive....
The Church that affirms such errors is at once schismatic and heretical. This Conciliar
Church is, therefore, not Catholic. To whatever extent Pope, Bishops, priests, or faithful
adhere to this new Church, they separate themselves from the Catholic Church....5

I'm not asserting, therefore, that those who attend Novus Ordo mass or follow conciliarist bishops are therefore not Catholics. Only that you cannot identify the Catholic Church with the conciliar Church.

To do so destroys the meaning of the distinction between them.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:08:58 PM »

:cheers:

Two great posts. Merry Christmas!

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:15:38 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote
the Novus Ordo or Conciliar Church has an official name: The Roman Catholic Church.

edit: okay, I see what you're getting at.

Matthew, to say "the Conciliar Church" is the "Catholic Church" doesn't make sense.

Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre
We are suspended a divinis by the Conciliar Church and for the Conciliar Church, to
which we have no wish to belong. That Conciliar Church is a schismatic Church, because it breaks with the Catholic Church that has always been. It has its new dogmas, its new
priesthood, its new institutions, its new worship, all already condemned by the Church
in many a docuмent, official and definitive....
The Church that affirms such errors is at once schismatic and heretical. This Conciliar
Church is, therefore, not Catholic. To whatever extent Pope, Bishops, priests, or faithful
adhere to this new Church, they separate themselves from the Catholic Church....5

I'm not asserting, therefore, that those who attend Novus Ordo mass or follow conciliarist bishops are therefore not Catholics. Only that you cannot identify the Catholic Church with the conciliar Church.

To do so destroys the meaning of the distinction between them.

Of course we must distinguish for purposes of doctrine or defining orthodoxy (small 'o' of course).

But when it comes time to determine good will in its adherents, we must remember that the Novus Ordo DOES purport to be the Catholic Church, and so it has a level of deception far above what could be wielded by ANY protestant sect.

All any Lutheran needs to do is read the history books to see that Lutheranism arose in the 16th century. Plus it's named after a man, Martin Luther! Novus Ordo Catholics don't get that luxury. They can truly and honestly "get all patriotic" that their religion dates back to the year 33 AD and was founded by Jesus Christ.

And it's true. Unfortunately, there was this massive break in the 1960's...

During this "break", a vital link to the Truth was severed. Doctrine and Liturgy were radically changed, as in a revolution. But the buildings, trappings, and names were ALL KEPT.

Priests are still called Father (though they use first names now!) The religion is still called "Catholic". Lip service is paid to countless Catholic dogmas. And so forth.

conquistador1492 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:30:39 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I just spoke with a man at my Traditional chapel -- he's been Trad for about 3 1/2 years.

Very serious about his Faith; very anxious to talk about what he's discovered with others.

He is listening to tapes by a Fr. Hesse (sp?) who discusses Quo Primum, etc.

Anyhow, he is completely against the new SSPX orientation with Rome. In short, he has his finger on the pulse of the Faith and the Truth. He's a Trad of the first order, in other words. He is wiser and more in tune with the Truth than many long-time Trads!

And three and a half years ago, he was still Novus Ordo! But obviously not of bad will. Everyone should remember that for next time, when you're about to condemn everyone in the Novus Ordo to Hell, or call them all "Protestant".

Actually as a whole, novus ordites are much worse off than protestants. Most protestants do not profess Nostra Aetate filth, muslims and christians worship the same god, we esteem buddhism etc. etc. etc.

Also most evangelicals dont receive any type of "eucharist" or lords supper so they are saved from sacreligious communions that take place inside the vatican 2 cult buildings, being given out usually by ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ or effeminate men.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #6 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:39:13 PM »

Quote from: conquistador1492

Actually as a whole, novus ordites are much worse off than protestants.

It depends. Generally I would say that Novus Ordites are actually better off because they don't believe in the "once saved always saved" notion like the Protestants, and they also honor the Blessed Virgin Mary, whereas Protestants do not.

It is true that there are some Protestants out there who, sadly, are better Christians than certain Novus Ordites. But I say that Protestants are worse off.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:50:13 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

It is true that there are some Protestants out there who, sadly, are better Christians than certain Novus Ordites. But I say that Protestants are worse off.

A Novus Ordite is far more likely to become a traditionalist than a Protestant.

I wished someone a Merry Christmas yesterday, and then realized that his sect doesn't celebrate it!

Ambrose · « **Reply #8 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:52:17 PM »

It seems to me that the term "Novus Ordites," is far too loose of a term and lacks any specific definition. There can be no real discussion until the terms are clear.

There are many Catholics still in the fog under the anti-popes, but they are in grave spiritual danger as long as they remain in that situation.

It is not for us to judge them en masse as being outside the Church, as they are erroneously adhering to an undeclared heretic, and cannot be guilty of schism on that charge.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2012, 08:53:31 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

A Novus Ordite is far more likely to become a traditionalist than a Protestant.

Yes, precisely.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #10 on:** December 26, 2012, 04:44:07 PM »

----->That novus ordites will become Traditional Catholics in the year 2013.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2012, 04:55:24 PM »

I never verbally condemn any of the novus ordite laity because I do attribute it to "lack of knowledge" or the weakness of vanity. Many NO's think they are attending a Catholic Church but they somehow think that their church has too many liberals in charge or if only the priest would be more reverent....

Many NO's will simply stop going to mass completely. That's the course of action that the largest group of Catholics took after Vatican II. The initial burst of Catholics departing was intense but it has continued year after year in a trickle effect. This Christmas Eve, I drove by a local novus ordo church that, back when I was still novus ordo, was packed to the max and even had cars parked in the grass on the entry road to the church's parking lot and this year there were a handful of empty parking spaces. And this was just minutes befoer the start of mass. This is ultimately a good thing because the novus ordo closing down is a good thing.

However, I think adding a prayer intention to our daily rosary for the novus ordites out there would be a good action to take.

Ask for the body and soul of the novus ordite parishioner to be enlightened with the Love of Christ. Ask for an angelic message to be whispered in the ear of a novus ordite. Pray that the soul of the novus ordite could be embraced with the love of Mary's Immaculate Heart! And if you don't want to use any fancy words, pray that the novus ordites will just do a little bit of research and come to their senses!

The novus ordite clergy are a different thing altogether.

PenitentWoman · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2012, 06:00:43 PM »

Thank you for this post Matthew.

Maybe I'm wrong to feel this way, but it is hurtful to be compared to or said to be worse off than Protestants. It just seems to disinigrate everything I've known. Would I be so devoted to Our Lady as a Protestant? Would I ever find tradition if not for my Catholicism?

Sometimes it seems so hopeless, but it doesn't help to be told you're not really Catholic. It's devastating.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2012, 07:00:08 PM »

Quote from: PenitentWoman

Thank you for this post Matthew.

Maybe I'm wrong to feel this way, but it is hurtful to be compared to or said to be worse off than Protestants. It just seems to disinigrate everything I've known. Would I be so devoted to Our Lady as a Protestant? Would I ever find tradition if not for my Catholicism?

Sometimes it seems so hopeless, but it doesn't help to be told you're not really Catholic. It's devastating.

Penitent Woman, I understand your point of view but I would advise you to examine your conscience and ensure that you are not reacting out of vanity or pride. When it comes to the salvation of your soul, you will want to put the things of this world aside.

Discuss this with a priest during confession.

conquistador1492 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2012, 08:12:20 PM »

Quote from: PenitentWoman

Thank you for this post Matthew.

Maybe I'm wrong to feel this way, but it is hurtful to be compared to or said to be worse off than Protestants. It just seems to disinigrate everything I've known. Would I be so devoted to Our Lady as a Protestant? Would I ever find tradition if not for my Catholicism?

Sometimes it seems so hopeless, but it doesn't help to be told you're not really Catholic. It's devastating.

wells surely you dont really hold that vatican 2 cult members are catholic do you? What is so wrong with telling it like it is?