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Author Topic: Catholic League defends mortal sin.  (Read 8265 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2018, 09:46:45 AM »
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  • Well, we know the Church will never disappear, so we can't call new-rome the Catholic Church.  "Conciliar Church" is a good description for the V2 novelties proposed but not officially part of the Catholic Church, since the True Church is the bride of Christ and Her doctrines cannot change.  You could also think of it that the conciliar church occupies rome while the True Church is silenced.  Our Lady of LaSallette said that "The Church will be eclipsed" which references that it will still exist, just "seemingly replaced" by the Conciliar Church.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #61 on: August 23, 2018, 10:00:51 AM »
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  • "Conciliar Church" is a term used by Paul VI, a self-description. Also, authorities of the conciliar sect described the 1960ies robber council as "a new pentecost". Hence, the "Church of the new pentecost" is a new church opposed to the true Church of our Lord Jesus Christ which was instituted at the true and only Pentecost.

    Ainsi sont les intentions de l'Eglise conciliaire. (vatican.va, french, Paul VI, 1969)


    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #62 on: August 23, 2018, 10:04:21 AM »
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  • Ainsi sont les intentions de l'Eglise conciliaire. (vatican.va, french, Paul VI, 1969)
    He knew he was instrumental in founding a new sect, then.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Pascendi on Modernists "in the very veins and heart of the Church"
    « Reply #63 on: August 23, 2018, 10:12:22 AM »
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  • You don't believe that Modernism has much to do with the Crisis in the Church?
    What's interesting is that Pope St. Pius X wrote in Pascendi §§2,3 that the Modernists
    Quote from: Pope St. Pius X
    lie hid, a thing to be deeply deplored and feared, in her very bosom and heart, and are the more mischievous, the less conspicuously they appear. … they put their designs for her ruin into operation not from without but from within; hence, the danger is present almost in the very veins and heart of the Church, whose injury is the more certain, the more intimate is their knowledge of her.
    Thus, it seems the Modernist Conciliar Sect really is in the Catholic Church, like a cancer.
    The Pope also seems to think the Modernists, perhaps insofar as they are inconspicuous, are not excommunicated because of heresy. But today, they are very conspicuous.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #64 on: August 23, 2018, 10:45:28 AM »
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  • Well, as heretics, they WOULD incur the spiritual penalties for excommunication, per canon law.  This happens previous to them getting removed from office, which takes a legal process to do.  However, if you aren't quite sure who is or isn't a modernist (for they went into hiding under St Pius X), then you can't prove they should be removed...and the modernists know this.  They are as slippery as the luciferian snake they worship!


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #65 on: August 23, 2018, 10:54:48 AM »
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  • You don't believe that Modernism has much to do with the Crisis in the Church?

    There are some (certainly not all; I wouldn't include 2Vermont for example) sedevacantists and sedewhatevers who don't make a distinction. They don't use the term "modernism" because to them, it's not relevant. The Pope is either Catholic or not. He espouses heresy, or not. Nothing else matters. Some want to take the terms "modernism" and "conciliar church" out of use (as the SSPX has done). They have reshaped tradition. Which seems really strange to me.

    According to St. Pius X, modernism = heresy.  You're trying to redefine modernism as some flavor of liberalism rather than as heresy.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #66 on: August 23, 2018, 03:26:33 PM »
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  • Cardinal Manning and Pope Leo XIII spoke of Rationalism/naturalism Communism.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #67 on: August 23, 2018, 04:06:52 PM »
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  • You don't believe that Modernism has much to do with the Crisis in the Church?

    There are some (certainly not all; I wouldn't include 2Vermont for example) sedevacantists and sedewhatevers who don't make a distinction. They don't use the term "modernism" because to them, it's not relevant. The Pope is either Catholic or not. He espouses heresy, or not. Nothing else matters. Some want to take the terms "modernism" and "conciliar church" out of use (as the SSPX has done). They have reshaped tradition. Which seems really strange to me.
    Now *I'm* confused.


    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Pascendi on Modernists "in the very veins and heart of the Church"
    « Reply #68 on: August 24, 2018, 05:37:54 AM »
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  • What's interesting is that Pope St. Pius X wrote in Pascendi §§2,3 that the Modernists
    Quote
    lie hid, a thing to be deeply deplored and feared, in her very bosom and heart, and are the more mischievous, the less conspicuously they appear. … they put their designs for her ruin into operation not from without but from within; hence, the danger is present almost in the very veins and heart of the Church, whose injury is the more certain, the more intimate is their knowledge of her.
    Thus, it seems the Modernist Conciliar Sect really is in the Catholic Church, like a cancer.
    Exactly right Germania. Thanks for pointing this out using Pacsendi. When AnEvenSeven was here, he vehemently rejected that this was even possible, claiming the idea to be heresy, meanwhile, as you pointed out, we have Pope St. Pius X telling us  exactly that.

    Fr. Wathen put it this way in Who Shall Ascend?:
    "The reader is implored to believe that as it is in the spirit of Christian charity that we have been compelled to proclaim the Catholic Church to be the sole and exclusive instrument of salvation for men on earth, it is in the same spirit that we assert the major thesis of this third part, viz., the Conciliar Church is not the Catholic Church, though it is within it, like a fifth column."
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Pascendi on Modernists "in the very veins and heart of the Church"
    « Reply #69 on: August 24, 2018, 08:13:38 AM »
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  • What's interesting is that Pope St. Pius X wrote in Pascendi §§2,3 that the ModernistsThus, it seems the Modernist Conciliar Sect really is in the Catholic Church, like a cancer.
    The Pope also seems to think the Modernists, perhaps insofar as they are inconspicuous, are not excommunicated because of heresy. But today, they are very conspicuous.
    So the legitimate authority of the Catholic Church is one and the same as the authority of the conciliar sect? Is this what Pius X was really saying? Where is there Church teaching to support this idea?

    Offline Struthio

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    Pascendi Domini / Lamentabili sane exitu / Praestantia Scripturae
    « Reply #70 on: August 24, 2018, 08:35:08 AM »
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  • According to St. Pius X, modernism = heresy.  You [Meg] are trying to redefine modernism as some flavor of liberalism rather than as heresy.

    Concerning the modernists, it can do no harm to also remind of the fact, that beside Pascendi dominici gregis there is the "1907 syllabus" Lamentabili sane exitu as well as the motu proprio Praestantia Scripturae. The latter explicitly condemns modernists ipso facto, latae sententiae, and according to the 1917 Code of Canon Law (Can. 188/4) they loose their offices ipso facto.


    Quote from: Pius X, Praestantia Scripturae, Motu Proprio, 18. November 1907
    Moreover, in order to check the daily increasing audacity of many modernists who are endeavoring by all kinds of sophistry and devices to detract from the force and efficacy not only of the decree “Lamentabili sane exitu” (the so-called Syllabus), issued by our order by the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition on July 3 of the present year, but also of our encyclical letters “Pascendi dominici gregis” given on September 8 of this same year, we do by our apostolic authority repeat and confirm both that decree of the Supreme Sacred Congregation and those encyclical letters of ours, adding the penalty of excommunication against their contradictors, and this we declare and decree that should anybody, which may God forbid, be so rash as to defend any one of the propositions, opinions or teachings condemned in these docuмents he falls, ipso facto, under the censure contained under the chapter “Docentes” of the constitution “Apostolicae Sedis,” which is the first among the excommunications latae sententiae, simply reserved to the Roman Pontiff. This excommunication is to be understood as salvis poenis, which may be incurred by those who have violated in any way the said docuмents, as propagators and defenders of heresies, when their propositions, opinions and teachings are heretical, as has happened more than once in the case of the adversaries of both these docuмents, especially when they advocate the errors of the modernists that is, the synthesis of all heresies.


    Lamentabili sane exitu, July 3, 1907, on papalencyclicals.net
    Pascendi dominici gregis, September 8, 1907, on vatican.va
    Praestantia Scripturae, November 18, 1907, papalencyclicals.net
    CIC 1917, on intratext.com (without footnotes)


    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Pascendi on Modernists "in the very veins and heart of the Church"
    « Reply #71 on: August 24, 2018, 08:43:47 AM »
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  • So the legitimate authority of the Catholic Church is one and the same as the authority of the conciliar sect? Is this what Pius X was really saying? Where is there Church teaching to support this idea?
    More from Pascendi:

    ....and because it is necessary for them [Modernists] to remain within the ranks of the Church in order that they may gradually transform the collective conscience - thus unconsciously avowing that the common conscience is not with them, and that they have no right to claim to be its interpreters.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Pascendi on Modernists "in the very veins and heart of the Church"
    « Reply #72 on: August 24, 2018, 08:53:35 AM »
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  • More from Pascendi:

    ....and because it is necessary for them [Modernists] to remain within the ranks of the Church in order that they may gradually transform the collective conscience - thus unconsciously avowing that the common conscience is not with them, and that they have no right to claim to be its interpreters.
    The need for them to remain in the ranks is not the same as them actually doing so.

    Eta: it seems that those who continue to give  them legitimacy give them EXACTLY what they need 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #73 on: August 24, 2018, 09:14:15 AM »
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  • Why do I get the thread "Catholic League Defends Mortal Sin" when I go to page 1 of this thread? Is it just me?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Catholic League defends mortal sin.
    « Reply #74 on: August 24, 2018, 09:17:14 AM »
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  • Why do I get the thread "Catholic League Defends Mortal Sin" when I go to page 1 of this thread? Is it just me?
    Because it's correct.  Geremia changed his post title