Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Viva Cristo Rey on August 17, 2018, 08:03:42 AM
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Catholic League tweet denying sɛҳuąƖ abuse crisis met with scorn on social media
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The Catholic League responded defiantly to a report from a grand jury in Pennsylvania outlining egregious allegations of sɛҳuąƖ abuse for decades by members of the clergy. (Photo by Don Murray/Getty Images)
Carlos Garcia
8 hours
The Catholic League denied there was an ongoing crisis over child sex abuse allegations in a Pennsylvania grand jury report (https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/08/14/grand-jury-catholic-church-protected-more-than-300-predator-priests-who-preyed-on-children-in-pa), and the social media message was met with disgust and scorn.
“There are many vicious critics of the Catholic Church…”
The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights has been a vehement defender of the church’s theology and agenda, but their tweet denying the crisis from the sɛҳuąƖ abuse report was not greeted warmly.
“There is no on-going crisis—it’s a total myth,” the tweet read.
“In fact, there is no institution,” it claimed, “private or public, that has less of a problem with the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of minors today than the Catholic Church.”
The account linked to a counterargument from the Catholic League president, Bill Donahue.
Donahue argued that the mainstream media was presenting the findings from the grand jury as fact when they were investigatory and not conclusive.
“Importantly, in almost all cases,” Donahue argued, “the accused named in the report was never afforded the right to rebut the charges. That is because the report was investigative, not evidentiary, though the report’s summary suggests that it is authoritative. It manifestly is not.”
Donahue goes on to claim that the rate of substantiated abuse in the Catholic church is .005 percent, or one of every 200 Catholic clergymen. In another section, he accuses the media of covering the role of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ clergymen in the abuses, in favor of blaming the church.
“Here is what’s going on,” he concludes. “There are many vicious critics of the Catholic Church who would like to weaken its moral authority, and will seize on any problem it has to discredit its voice. Why? They hate its teachings on sɛҳuąƖity, marriage, and the family.”
“Ignorant, tone-deaf, arrogant”
The summation was met with scorn from many on social media.
“Imagine. Imagine being this blind. Oh my God have mercy,” responded (https://twitter.com/DaveHolmes/status/1030298813842350080) Esquire editor Dave Holmes.
“Bill Donahue’s soul just leaked out of his body,” replied (https://twitter.com/jpodhoretz/status/1030293736343961602)Commentary editor John Podhoretz.
“Did the Catholic League just call Fake News on thousands of molestations?” asked (https://twitter.com/dougstafford/status/1030303777599963136) Doug Stafford, the chief strategist for Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.). “Lowlife,” he added (https://twitter.com/dougstafford/status/1030305526654136320).
“One of the most shameful, ignorant, tone-deaf, arrogant tweets I’ve ever seen,” said (https://twitter.com/LokayFOX5/status/1030287650689822720) Jim Lokay of Fox News’ local affiliate in Washington D.C. “One child abused is one child too many. I’d love to see the @CatholicLeague’s Bill Donohue say, to the face any of the victims, the cover-up of the crimes perpetrated against them was ‘a total myth.'”
“The pope is on their side”
The Vatican responded to the report Thursday in a much less defensive statement (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/us/catholic-church-abuse-vatican-statement.html) than that of the Catholic League.
“The abuses described in the report are criminal and morally reprehensible,” the Vatican statement read. “Those acts were betrayals of trust that robbed survivors of their dignity and their faith. The church must learn hard lessons from its past, and there should be accountability for both abusers and those who permitted abuse to occur.”
“Victims should know that the pope is on their side,” the statement added.
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Your thread title is slanderous. In this case, the Catholic League is making some very legitimate arguments. At no point did they condone mortal sin.
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Donahue goes on to claim that the rate of substantiated abuse in the Catholic church is .005 percent, or one of every 200 Catholic clergymen. In another section, he accuses the media of covering the role of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ clergymen in the abuses, in favor of blaming the church.
“Here is what’s going on,” he concludes. “There are many vicious critics of the Catholic Church who would like to weaken its moral authority, and will seize on any problem it has to discredit its voice. Why? They hate its teachings on sɛҳuąƖity, marriage, and the family.”
Donahue is spot on. More rabbis abuse children than even Novus Ordo presbyters, and yet the Church gets all the media attacks because they "would like to weaken its moral authority, and will season on any problem it has to discredit its voice ... [because] they hate its teachings on sɛҳuąƖity, marriage, and the family."
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And, as Donahue suggests, why aren't ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as a group vilified by the media for this behavior? Instead, they attack the Catholic Church and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs walk away unscathed.
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And, as Donahue suggests, why aren't ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as a group vilified by the media for this behavior? Instead, they attack the Catholic Church and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs walk away unscathed.
Who controls the media? We all know the answer.
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And, as Donahue suggests, why aren't ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as a group vilified by the media for this behavior? Instead, they attack the Catholic Church and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs walk away unscathed.
It's another ʝʊdɛօ-masonic "anti-Catholic" slander-fest.
They've batched together crimes and events going back 20 years and present it in lurid detail.
All for public consumption, to portray the Church in the worst light.
The tactic is reminiscent of Jєω, Ken Starr's Clinton-Lewynski investigation.
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2040417.1418229644!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/controversy11n-12-web.jpg)
Ken, revealed all the sordid details which were fed to the front-page media for months.
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https://gloria.tv/video/Q3wFDWFg93w31bw77tNS2yVfG (https://gloria.tv/video/Q3wFDWFg93w31bw77tNS2yVfG)
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The Pennsylvania Grand Jury Hoax
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Gloria.TV News (https://gloria.tv/Gloria.TV%20News) 8 5 yesterday
Catholic League’s Bill Donohue has called the Pennsylvania grand jury report on alleged clerical abuses an "ongoing war on the Catholic Church", strewn with lies, hypocrisy, bigotry, and corruption.
Donohue reminds that this war started in 2001 when Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne Abraham received the charge “to investigate the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of minors by individuals associated with religious organizations.” But she picked only the Catholic Church. In 2005, Abraham gave up: not a single priest was prosecuted.
Round 2 of the war was started in 2010 by Abraham’s successor, Seth Williams. His star witness was Daniel Gallagher whom court-ordered evaluations described as “immature», "self-indulgent,” and “hedonistic.” Gallagher was a chronic liar, an alcoholic, a drug addict, and a thief. His own mother testified against him. Williams found him persuasive.
Williams started one of the most incredibly unethical trials in recent memory against Msgr. Lynn who was convicted of not doing enough to protect minors from predatory priests. The decision was overturned by the state Supreme Court because Williams had treated jurors with endless testimony about alleged abuses having nothing to do with Lynn. Williams is now in jail after he was found guilty of bribery.
Round 3 of the war started in 2014 when Altoona-Johnstown Bishop Mark Bartchak had immediately notified police upon learning of the conduct of an abuser. Instead of congratulating him, Attorney General Kathleen Kane launched a grand jury investigation of six Pennsylvania dioceses. Donohue calls this "a rank expression of anti-Catholicism." Kane is now sitting in prison for abusing her office.
Round 4 started under Kane’s successor, Josh Shapiro who released the grand jury report who contains almost exclusively old cases extending back to the 1940s involving men who are either dead or were thrown out of the priesthood. Donohue comments: "Catholics in Pennsylvania are being played by some very sinister, dishonest, hypocritical and vindictive officials."
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Catholic League’s Bill Donohue has called the Pennsylvania grand jury report on alleged clerical abuses an "ongoing war on the Catholic Church", strewn with lies, hypocrisy, bigotry, and corruption.
Donohue reminds that this war started in 2001 when Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne Abraham received the charge “to investigate the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of minors by individuals associated with religious organizations.” But she picked only the Catholic Church. In 2005, Abraham gave up: not a single priest was prosecuted.
Round 2 of the war was started in 2010 by Abraham’s successor, Seth Williams. His star witness was Daniel Gallagher whom court-ordered evaluations described as “immature», "self-indulgent,” and “hedonistic.” Gallagher was a chronic liar, an alcoholic, a drug addict, and a thief. His own mother testified against him. Williams found him persuasive.
Williams started one of the most incredibly unethical trials in recent memory against Msgr. Lynn who was convicted of not doing enough to protect minors from predatory priests. The decision was overturned by the state Supreme Court because Williams had treated jurors with endless testimony about alleged abuses having nothing to do with Lynn. Williams is now in jail after he was found guilty of bribery.
Round 3 of the war started in 2014 when Altoona-Johnstown Bishop Mark Bartchak had immediately notified police upon learning of the conduct of an abuser. Instead of congratulating him, Attorney General Kathleen Kane launched a grand jury investigation of six Pennsylvania dioceses. Donohue calls this "a rank expression of anti-Catholicism." Kane is now sitting in prison for abusing her office.
Round 4 started under Kane’s successor, Josh Shapiro who released the grand jury report who contains almost exclusively old cases extending back to the 1940s involving men who are either dead or were thrown out of the priesthood. Donohue comments: "Catholics in Pennsylvania are being played by some very sinister, dishonest, hypocritical and vindictive officials."
Why is every DA & AG in this post Jєωιѕн?
Kathleen Kane (="Cohen")
Lynne Abraham (no comment necessary)
Seth Williams (probably changed his name, with Seth being a giveaway)
Josh Shapiro (no comment needed)
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I would say that Rabbis and new order are of the same caliber. Birds or a feather flock together.
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It isn't slanderous. It is the truth.
We all know it's true. These people should have been locked up a long time ago but the Catholic Church condoned it. Thumb down me all you want. There are threads here that support the findings of the Grand jury you lukewarm Catholics. I guess Scranton was all lies and a myth. What is wrong with you people? If the Church was Catholic, then the Jєωs would have nothing on the Church. The Church is destroying itself. Stop blaming the Jєωs when it is lukewarm Catholics that is the problem. Once lukewarm Catholics changed the Mass which allowed the smoke of Satan into the Church.
The Catholic Church put itself in this position.
There have been tons of parents who back up the pedophiles priests instead of their own children.
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Bill Donohue demonstrated a legal conspiracy to prosecute the Catholic Church for sex abuse in Scranton. They turned a decades old story into more fake, Jєω news.
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“There is no on-going crisis—it’s a total myth,” the tweet read.
“In fact, there is no institution,” it claimed, “private or public, that has less of a problem with the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of minors today than the Catholic Church.”
That statement is inaccurate and condones mortal sin.
You slander and attack me.
Even the Vatican has now admitted there is a crisis.
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Scranton isn't old news. Aren't these priests still out there somewhere?
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"It isn't slanderous. It is the truth.
We all know it's true. These people should have been locked up a long time ago but the Catholic Church condoned it. Thumb down me all you want. There are threads here that support the findings of the Grand jury you lukewarm Catholics. I guess Scranton was all lies and a myth. What is wrong with you people? If the Church was Catholic, then the Jєωs would have nothing on the Church. The Church is destroying itself. Stop blaming the Jєωs when it is lukewarm Catholics that is the problem. Once lukewarm Catholics changed the Mass which allowed the smoke of Satan into the Church.
The Catholic Church put itself in this position.
There have been tons of parents who back up the pedophiles priests instead of their own children. "-- VCR
I agree with your thoughts completely, Viva. Can't believe that people on this site want to paper it over by claiming the Jєωs did it. Those that keep defending it are the biggest part of the problem.
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The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.
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“There is no on-going crisis—it’s a total myth,” the tweet read.
“In fact, there is no institution,” it claimed, “private or public, that has less of a problem with the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of minors today than the Catholic Church.”
That statement is inaccurate and condones mortal sin.
You slander and attack me.
Even the Vatican has now admitted there is a crisis.
Your thread title is absolutely slanderous. Donahue is disputing the existence of a crisis that's somehow unique to the Catholic Church. He is not condoning any actual sins committed that were committed along these lines.
If I say that I don't think some person committed adultery, does that mean I'm condoning adultery? Even if you disagree, and believe that there is evidence to the contrary, it's slanderous to claim that I am defending adultery. Please apply basic logic, would you?
Donahue is 100% spot on with his analysis, and he is in no way defending mortal sin. Now you'll go ahead and claim that I am defending mortal sin for claiming that Donahue is not defending mortal sin, right?
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I agree with your thoughts completely, Viva. Can't believe that people on this site want to paper it over by claiming the Jєωs did it. Those that keep defending it are the biggest part of the problem.
Nobody's papering anything over, except the media who are blaming the Church (almost exclusively) rather than blaming ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs.
And there's no question but that the Jєωs are the ones excoriating the Catholic Church almost exclusively. As Donahue points out, statistics demonstrate that the incidence of such sins is NO HIGHER in the Catholic Church than in any other group ... including among rabbis. But when's the last time anyone saw a story in the news about rabbis abusing children? Answer: never.
That's what is at issue here, not whether or not there have been pedophile crimes committed by Novus Ordo presbyters.
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This is the kind of thing that happens when people put emotion above reason.
For this reason, women should be barred from serving on juries. How many people have been wrongly convicted in courts of law (later proven to be innocent) simply because the gravity of the crime was so great that SOMEONE had to pay, and the jurors considered acquittal to be tantamount to condoning the horrific crime. WHAT was done is completely distinct from the question of whether the person on trial was actually guilty of it.
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This is the kind of thing that happens when people put emotion above reason.
For this reason, women should be barred from serving on juries. How many people have been wrongly convicted in courts of law (later proven to be innocent) simply because the gravity of the crime was so great that SOMEONE had to pay, and the jurors considered acquittal to be tantamount to condoning the horrific crime. WHAT was done is completely distinct from the question of whether the person on trial was actually guilty of it.
Well, if it makes you feel better we'll call them homo priest within the Novus Ordo. They are still there because of the admission policies bullied into place in seminaries which became quite sucessful. Then when the problems became known, the PTB within the "Church" did everything they could to hide it and protect their fellow sodomites. Since the man Bergolio is at the top, I'd say the buck stops there.
So, who are these mystery figures doing end runs around the parish priests. The Slender man?
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Well, if it makes you feel better we'll call them homo priest within the Novus Ordo.
Nobody cares what YOU call them. What's at issue is Donahue's correct assessment that the media is targeting the Catholic Church exclusively. So what institution these days is not homo-friendly? No, in fact, the Catholic Church is often attacked for its "homophobia" on top of the pedophilia problem. So, let's get this straight, the Church is supposed to let homos become priests and then get attacked after said homos assault young boys. This is what you're incapable of seeing.
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And, as Donahue suggests, why aren't ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as a group vilified by the media for this behavior? Instead, they attack the Catholic Church and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs walk away unscathed.
These priest-pederasts are ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, but the MSM doesn't tell you that.
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“Here is what’s going on,” he concludes. “There are many vicious critics of the Catholic Church who would like to weaken its moral authority, and will seize on any problem it has to discredit its voice. Why? They hate its teachings on sɛҳuąƖity, marriage, and the family.”
I think the MSM got sick of talking about Russia, so they're resorting to this (again). And it's right before U.S. elections. Coincidence?
Time to pray an Act of Reparation to the Sacred Heart of Jesus (http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/Filius/ActusRep.html), specifically:We wish also to make amends for the insults to which Thy Vicar on earth and Thy priests are subjected, for the profanation, by conscious neglect or terrible acts of sacrilege, of the very crimes of nations who resist the rights and teaching authority of the Church which Thou hast founded.
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Here's Bill Donahue's report:
"PENNSYLVANIA GRAND JURY REPORT DEBUNKED (https://www.catholicleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/PA-GRAND-JURY-REPORT-DEBUNKED1.pdf)"
He seems to put things in perspective.
The report covers accusations extending back to World War II. Almost all the accused are either dead or have been thrown out of the priesthood. For example, in the Diocese of hαɾɾιsburg, 71 persons are named: 42 are dead and four are missing. Most of those who are still alive are no longer in ministry.
There are some cases that are so old that they are unbelievable. Consider the case of Father Joseph M. Ganter. Born in 1892, he was accused in 2008 by an 80-year-old man of abusing him in the 1930s. Obviously, nothing came of it. But the priest was accustomed to such charges.
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Nobody cares what YOU call them. What's at issue is Donahue's correct assessment that the media is targeting the Catholic Church exclusively. So what institution these days is not homo-friendly? No, in fact, the Catholic Church is often attacked for its "homophobia" on top of the pedophilia problem. So, let's get this straight, the Church is supposed to let homos become priests and then get attacked after said homos assault young boys. This is what you're incapable of seeing.
No, what YOU miss is that it's not a disagreement about nomenclature. It's not about what I'm calling them, it's about who they are. Just because my enemy has an enemy doesn't make either one of them , per se, correct. Sure the evil in the world is focusing its relentless forces against the Church. That doesn't make it alright to molest young boys. Both sides are wrong and deserve strong punishment. This "small percentage" is a myth. Besides being doctrinaly, astoundingly wrong, they have quite predictably, fallen into horrible practices that are spreading like weeds. The new church says it's a small amount, and they are cleaning up what's left. Horse manure! What percentage? I'd say darned well ALL of them, or at least 95%. It has even crept into the SSPX, if what I'm reading here is true.
Look, I'm not looking to become the next Wessex here. I'm not saying there is nowhere to turn. As they used to say on that X-Files program, the truth is out there. This ends in joy for those who persevere.
You and Donahue are stuck in the 20th century in your concept of the world. . It is far, far later than that.
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And, as Donahue suggests, why aren't ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as a group vilified by the media for this behavior? Instead, they attack the Catholic Church and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs walk away unscathed.
If ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is so good why are they bothering those guys?
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It isn't slanderous. It is the truth.
We all know it's true. These people should have been locked up a long time ago but the Catholic Church condoned it. Thumb down me all you want. There are threads here that support the findings of the Grand jury you lukewarm Catholics. I guess Scranton was all lies and a myth. What is wrong with you people? If the Church was Catholic, then the Jєωs would have nothing on the Church. The Church is destroying itself. Stop blaming the Jєωs when it is lukewarm Catholics that is the problem. Once lukewarm Catholics changed the Mass which allowed the smoke of Satan into the Church.
The Catholic Church put itself in this position.
There have been tons of parents who back up the pedophiles priests instead of their own children.
What you should really worry about is what is going on in the public schools. They are doing the same types of covering up and allowing bad teachers to resign so that they can go elsewhere and do the same things over again.
:really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2:
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The problem is that these are allegations. Many of them may be true but there are also many that are false. They are very likely so false that a prosecutor could not get a conviction. Any body can make an allegation. But where do the accused innocent ones go to get their reputations back?
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The problem is that these are allegations.
And half the suspects are dead (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/grand-jury-report-priests'-birth-ordination-and-death-years-distributions/).
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Why is every DA & AG in this post Jєωιѕн?
Because it has nothing to with their concerns for justice (their idea of "justice" is that of the French Revolution's Declaration on the Rights of Man); it's a plot against the Catholic Church's moral authority.
How incompetent is Pennsylvania that it took their AG decades before actually formulating this report, half the suspects of which are now dead (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/grand-jury-report-priests'-birth-ordination-and-death-years-distributions/)? Clearly, they're not concerned with children, else they'd've formulated this report decades ago.
This "report" has nothing to do with their concern for victims but with distracting the U.S. from greater issues, like child-killing and the real possibility of overturning Roe v. Wade after this coming U.S. election.
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And half the suspects are dead (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/grand-jury-report-priests'-birth-ordination-and-death-years-distributions/).
So who can tell which allegations are nonsense and which allegations are real?This is just a government sponsered smear campaign against the Catholic Church.
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1. The most important point to know is that a "grand jury report" is not really written by any jury members. As any lawyer will tell you, the report is actually written by government attorneys with a predetermined outcome. The folks in the "jury" are merely a formality, window dressing to make the matter legal. Jurors sit in a room eating hoagies and reading the newspaper (http://www.bigtrial.net/2013/06/a-priests-ordeal.html) while "listening" to the proceedings. There is no fact-checking, no cross-examinations, and no due process. Those cited in the report have almost no recourse to defend themselves. Accusations are assessed less on evidence and more on the desire for them to be true.
When the time comes, a jury member simply slaps his signature on the finished attorneys' report to make everything official. Press conferences ensue, and hysteria follows. [Highly recommended: "If it's not a runaway, it's not a real grand jury" by Roger Roots (http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/runaway.htm).]
In theory, a grand jury is supposed examine evidence to determine whether a crime took place and should be prosecuted. This was clearly not the intention of Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro. In an 800+-page screed, Shapiro's report (and yes, it's really Shapiro's report, not a "grand jury report") does not recommend a single criminal charge, because almost all of the accusations are many decades old. The fact that countless tax dollars and unlimited government resources were expended on this escapade – while giving far-more-recent abuse in public (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/child-protective-services-law-amendment-teacher-jail-philadelphia-school-district-abuse-20180721.html) schools (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/12/22/teachers-who-sɛҳuąƖly-abuse-students-still-find-classroom-jobs/95346790/), the Boy Scouts (http://www.themediareport.com/2012/07/09/child-abuse-in-boys-scouts-dwarfs-catholic-church/), and other organizations a complete pass – should raise serious questions about Shapiro's true motives.
2. Countless headlines have trumpeted that the report identified over 300 "predator priests." In truth, that is the number of those merely accused; and the listed men are not just priests but include lay people, deacons, and seminarians. Many, if not the majority, of the priests in the report are long dead and no longer around to defend themselves. This caper examined allegations dating back to the 1930s, some eight decades ago. (One of the priests named in the report was born in 1892, about the same time that light bulbs became popular.) Several men in the report vehemently deny the accusations against them, and some claims in the report are outright false. (Much more on this in Part II (http://www.themediareport.com/2018/08/18/catholic-penn-grand-jury-report-report-debunked/).) [HT: Catholic League (https://www.catholicleague.org/pa-grand-jury-report-based-on-accusations/).]
http://www.themediareport.com/2018/08/18/rebuttal-grand-jury-report-pennsylvania/
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We all know what Jєω Shapiro was trying to accomplish here.
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And the sodomites that control the Church enabled him. The sodomites take hardworking people's money for law suits. They take state and federal dollars and use it to groom children for sodomy. I have seen many families in our area move because high taxes while the sodomite clergy and religious live high on the hog.
Many laity have sodomites in their families. Sodomy is becoming the norm at chapels. Many traditional Catholics are desperate to have a priest that they will accept the sodomite.
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Sad that people lost their homes to the bank while these sodomites have Jersey shore homes. They have a nice gig Many have women doing most on the altar. They didn't use spare time to visit sick or elderly, many used their spare time to rape and molest. Is it true that weurl lives in expensive house? Expensive room rates when they can use catholic universities during off season for their meeting.
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So who can tell which allegations are nonsense and which allegations are real? This is just a government sponsered
government- & MSM-sponsoredsmear campaign against the Catholic Church.
Yes, where's the outrage against molesting-Protestants or -rabbis or child-marrying Muslims (real pedophilia!)? (Carnal Mohammad married a 9-year-old!)
Or perhaps Jєωιѕн Shapiro et al. are on the road to conversion, because they hold a higher moral standard for Catholic priests than for others? However, they're not accusing of ephebophilia/pederasty, but pedophilia, aren't they? And why is pedophilia wrong to them, but not also sodomy (ephebophilia/pederasty)? They have no moral principles, have no clue about justice. He accuses Timlin of covering up rape and abortion, but he belongs to the Party of Death in which child-killing is part of their party platform!
The smear campaign hypothesis seems the most likely.
cf. this thread on Shapiro's abortion views ("safe, legal and rare") (https://www.cathinfo.com/politics-and-world-leaders/josh-shapiro-on-judaism-religious-freedom-abortion-sodomy)
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Countless news stories have faithfully regurgitated one berserk line in particular from the report, a line which Shapiro clearly tailored for the media to seize upon:
"Priests were raping little boys and girls and the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing: they hid it all."
There is no other way to put it except to say that this is a flat-out lie by Shapiro. Even a cursory look at the report debunks this absurd claim.
Take the case in the report of Rev. Joseph Mueller: In 1986, a man went to the Diocese of Pittsburgh to claim that Mueller abused him years earlier as a teenager. Then-Bishop Donald Wuerl immediately removed him from ministry and shipped him off to St. Luke's treatment facility. Based on its evaluation of the guy, St. Luke's advised that Mueller "not work with children or adolescents." A diocesan memo also declared Mueller "unassignable." So what did Wuerl do? He stripped Mueller of his faculties, and the dude never worked as a priest again. Sayonara.
That, dear readers, is not "doing nothing," as Shapiro claims, and he knows it.
In fact, if one takes the time to actually read the report, one will see that the first action by a diocese, even many decades ago, was almost always to immediately remove the accused priest from his assignment. In a bunch of cases, priestly faculties were stripped. Therapy was often provided to victims.
Josh Shapiro's claim that the Church showed "complete disdain" for victims is nothing but an ugly smear. "I met with every victim. Anyone that would come forward, I met with them and I'd have to say more than once shared a tear with them as they or their parents told the story," Cardinal Wuerl has told (https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/08/16/cardinal-wuerl-addresses-inaction-claims-grand-jury-report/).
http://www.themediareport.com/2018/08/18/rebuttal-grand-jury-report-pennsylvania/
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It isn't slanderous. It is the truth.
We all know it's true. These people should have been locked up a long time ago but the Catholic Church condoned it. Thumb down me all you want. There are threads here that support the findings of the Grand jury you lukewarm Catholics. I guess Scranton was all lies and a myth. What is wrong with you people? If the Church was Catholic, then the Jєωs would have nothing on the Church. The Church is destroying itself. Stop blaming the Jєωs when it is lukewarm Catholics that is the problem. Once lukewarm Catholics changed the Mass which allowed the smoke of Satan into the Church.
The Catholic Church put itself in this position.
There have been tons of parents who back up the pedophiles priests instead of their own children.
^^THIS^^
The only ones responsible for making the Church "look bad" are the predators, not the media.
Michael Matt made a critical error in 2002 when the Boston Globe story came out: he claimed it was all a conspiracy to "harm" the Church. If you join him in this chorus, you join with the predators who make the Church look bad, and worse, you do great harm of insult to the injury of the victims.
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We all know what Jєω Shapiro was trying to accomplish here.
Really?
So you'd rather the pedo priests continue to be hidden rather than exposed just because it makes it hard to defend the Church?
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Really?
So you'd rather the pedo priests continue to be hidden rather than exposed just because it makes it hard to defend the Church?
Follow the thread. Shapiro's report is a smear job filled with lies and distortions. Follow the thread. Where's a similar report on abuse by rabbis, scout masters, Orthodox prelates, Protestant ministers?
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Follow the thread. Shapiro's report is a smear job filled with lies and distortions. Follow the thread. Where's a similar report on abuse by rabbis, scout masters, Orthodox prelates, Protestant ministers?
Yes, the report is going to have problems. That's what happens with secular investigations against anything of a Catholic nature. However, even given the flawed report, I think it's good that this situation has come to light. Maybe there will be RICA charges filed against the conciliar church in the U.S., or the USCCB. At least I hope so. Let the conciliar church fall.
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^^THIS^^
The only ones responsible for making the Church "look bad" are the predators, not the media.
Michael Matt made a critical error in 2002 when the Boston Globe story came out: he claimed it was all a conspiracy to "harm" the Church. If you join him in this chorus, you join with the predators who make the Church look bad, and worse, you do great harm of insult to the injury of the victims.
I agree. IMO, the rotten homo conciliar church has brought this upon itself. The media wants to make the church look bad - that's true. But the conciliar church IS bad.
True Catholicism will endure this.
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That's what happens with secular investigations against anything of a Catholic nature.
Not secular. Jєωιѕн. Purely secular investigations usually do things like butcher Catholic theological concepts due to ignorance. This Jєω has it in for the Church and is reporting these things with glee. And the media is spinning it as if the Church has a monopoly on these types of crimes.
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This thread shows the danger of equating the Vatican II church with the Catholic Church.
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I agree. IMO, the rotten homo conciliar church has brought this upon itself. The media wants to make the church look bad - that's true. But the conciliar church IS bad.
True Catholicism will endure this.
But, as 2Vermont points out, to the average person, this is not smearing the CONCILIAR Church but the Catholic Church ... since very few people understand any distinction between the two.
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I agree. IMO, the rotten homo conciliar church has brought this upon itself. The media wants to make the church look bad - that's true. But the conciliar church IS bad.
True Catholicism will endure this.
Meg! We agree! Miracles do happen! :P
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But, as 2Vermont points out, to the average person, this is not smearing the CONCILIAR Church but the Catholic Church ... since very few people understand any distinction between the two.
If I impersonate someone and commit a crime, the effect of that is to make the subject look bad. So the Conciliar Church, in impersonating the Catholic Church, is continuing to bring disgrace upon the Catholic Church.
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Meg! We agree! Miracles do happen! :P
;D
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;D
So 2Vermont now believes that the earth is flat?
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But, as 2Vermont points out, to the average person, this is not smearing the CONCILIAR Church but the Catholic Church ... since very few people understand any distinction between the two.
So what if few people understand the distinction. The term "conciliar church" has for the most part gone out of use, even with traditional Catholics. Even trads don't really make the distinction anymore. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't make the distinction.
I notice that you rarely use the term "conciliar church." Why is that?
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So 2Vermont now believes that the earth is flat?
No...it means Meg is now a sedevacantist. :laugh1:
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Yes, the report is going to have problems. That's what happens with secular investigations against anything of a Catholic nature. However, even given the flawed report, I think it's good that this situation has come to light. Maybe there will be RICA charges filed against the conciliar church in the U.S., or the USCCB. At least I hope so. Let the conciliar church fall.
Meg, I think you mean RICO.
Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations
And I agree with you. What a wonderful thing that would be.
However, I also agree with Ladislaus that the Conciliar Church is impersonating the Catholic Church.
:)
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The concilar sect (M. Lefevbre) is impersonating the Church of our Lord.
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The concilar sect (M. Lefevbre) is impersonating the Church of our Lord.
I'm fine with that correction.
:)
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Meg, I think you mean RICO.
Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations
And I agree with you. What a wonderful thing that would be.
However, I also agree with Ladislaus that the Conciliar Church is impersonating the Catholic Church.
:)
Oops! You're right. Thanks for the correction. My mistake.
Well, yes, the conciliar church is impersonating the Catholic Church. That's nothing new, of course. Ladislaus seems to think that we shouldn't use the term conciliar church, because "the world" doesn't understand the distinction. Well, I'm not going to define problems by what the world thinks, not use language that suits "the world" at large. A spade should be called a spade.
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No...it means Meg is now a sedevacantist. :laugh1:
:D
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The concilar sect (M. Lefevbre) is impersonating the Church of our Lord.
Yes, Archbishop Lefebvre maintained that the Church is occupied by a Modernist sect. He didn't want anyone to forget that Modernism is at the root of the problem.
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I notice that you rarely use the term "conciliar church." Why is that?
Because it's either the Catholic Church or it is not. "Concilar Church" is a term created so that people could have their cake and eat it too ... by pretending that it both is and isn't the Catholic Church at the same time, violating the principle of non-contradiction.
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Because it's either the Catholic Church or it is not. "Concilar Church" is a term created so that people could have their cake and eat it too
Yes, perhaps "conciliar sect" is more descriptive.
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Because it's either the Catholic Church or it is not. "Concilar Church" is a term created so that people could have their cake and eat it too ... by pretending that it both is and isn't the Catholic Church at the same time, violating the principle of non-contradiction.
Pretty much what the Modernists believe too. Not surprised that you think as they do.
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Yes, perhaps "conciliar sect" is more descriptive.
You don't believe that Modernism has much to do with the Crisis in the Church?
There are some (certainly not all; I wouldn't include 2Vermont for example) sedevacantists and sedewhatevers who don't make a distinction. They don't use the term "modernism" because to them, it's not relevant. The Pope is either Catholic or not. He espouses heresy, or not. Nothing else matters. Some want to take the terms "modernism" and "conciliar church" out of use (as the SSPX has done). They have reshaped tradition. Which seems really strange to me.
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Well, we know the Church will never disappear, so we can't call new-rome the Catholic Church. "Conciliar Church" is a good description for the V2 novelties proposed but not officially part of the Catholic Church, since the True Church is the bride of Christ and Her doctrines cannot change. You could also think of it that the conciliar church occupies rome while the True Church is silenced. Our Lady of LaSallette said that "The Church will be eclipsed" which references that it will still exist, just "seemingly replaced" by the Conciliar Church.
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"Conciliar Church" is a term used by Paul VI, a self-description. Also, authorities of the conciliar sect described the 1960ies robber council as "a new pentecost". Hence, the "Church of the new pentecost" is a new church opposed to the true Church of our Lord Jesus Christ which was instituted at the true and only Pentecost.
Ainsi sont les intentions de l'Eglise conciliaire. (https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/fr/audiences/1969/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19690129.html) (vatican.va, french, Paul VI, 1969)
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Ainsi sont les intentions de l'Eglise conciliaire. (https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/fr/audiences/1969/docuмents/hf_p-vi_aud_19690129.html) (vatican.va, french, Paul VI, 1969)
He knew he was instrumental in founding a new sect, then.
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You don't believe that Modernism has much to do with the Crisis in the Church?
What's interesting is that Pope St. Pius X wrote in Pascendi (http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis.html) §§2,3 that the Modernistslie hid, a thing to be deeply deplored and feared, in her very bosom and heart, and are the more mischievous, the less conspicuously they appear. … they put their designs for her ruin into operation not from without but from within; hence, the danger is present almost in the very veins and heart of the Church, whose injury is the more certain, the more intimate is their knowledge of her.
Thus, it seems the Modernist Conciliar Sect really is in the Catholic Church, like a cancer.
The Pope also seems to think the Modernists, perhaps insofar as they are inconspicuous, are not excommunicated because of heresy. But today, they are very conspicuous.
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Well, as heretics, they WOULD incur the spiritual penalties for excommunication, per canon law. This happens previous to them getting removed from office, which takes a legal process to do. However, if you aren't quite sure who is or isn't a modernist (for they went into hiding under St Pius X), then you can't prove they should be removed...and the modernists know this. They are as slippery as the luciferian snake they worship!
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You don't believe that Modernism has much to do with the Crisis in the Church?
There are some (certainly not all; I wouldn't include 2Vermont for example) sedevacantists and sedewhatevers who don't make a distinction. They don't use the term "modernism" because to them, it's not relevant. The Pope is either Catholic or not. He espouses heresy, or not. Nothing else matters. Some want to take the terms "modernism" and "conciliar church" out of use (as the SSPX has done). They have reshaped tradition. Which seems really strange to me.
According to St. Pius X, modernism = heresy. You're trying to redefine modernism as some flavor of liberalism rather than as heresy.
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Cardinal Manning and Pope Leo XIII spoke of Rationalism/naturalism Communism.
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You don't believe that Modernism has much to do with the Crisis in the Church?
There are some (certainly not all; I wouldn't include 2Vermont for example) sedevacantists and sedewhatevers who don't make a distinction. They don't use the term "modernism" because to them, it's not relevant. The Pope is either Catholic or not. He espouses heresy, or not. Nothing else matters. Some want to take the terms "modernism" and "conciliar church" out of use (as the SSPX has done). They have reshaped tradition. Which seems really strange to me.
Now *I'm* confused.
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What's interesting is that Pope St. Pius X wrote in Pascendi (http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis.html) §§2,3 that the Modernists
lie hid, a thing to be deeply deplored and feared, in her very bosom and heart, and are the more mischievous, the less conspicuously they appear. … they put their designs for her ruin into operation not from without but from within; hence, the danger is present almost in the very veins and heart of the Church, whose injury is the more certain, the more intimate is their knowledge of her.
Thus, it seems the Modernist Conciliar Sect really is in the Catholic Church, like a cancer.
Exactly right Germania. Thanks for pointing this out using Pacsendi. When AnEvenSeven was here, he vehemently rejected that this was even possible, claiming the idea to be heresy, meanwhile, as you pointed out, we have Pope St. Pius X telling us exactly that.
Fr. Wathen put it this way in Who Shall Ascend?:
"The reader is implored to believe that as it is in the spirit of Christian charity that we have been compelled to proclaim the Catholic Church to be the sole and exclusive instrument of salvation for men on earth, it is in the same spirit that we assert the major thesis of this third part, viz., the Conciliar Church is not the Catholic Church, though it is within it, like a fifth column."
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What's interesting is that Pope St. Pius X wrote in Pascendi (http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis.html) §§2,3 that the ModernistsThus, it seems the Modernist Conciliar Sect really is in the Catholic Church, like a cancer.
The Pope also seems to think the Modernists, perhaps insofar as they are inconspicuous, are not excommunicated because of heresy. But today, they are very conspicuous.
So the legitimate authority of the Catholic Church is one and the same as the authority of the conciliar sect? Is this what Pius X was really saying? Where is there Church teaching to support this idea?
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According to St. Pius X, modernism = heresy. You [Meg] are trying to redefine modernism as some flavor of liberalism rather than as heresy.
Concerning the modernists, it can do no harm to also remind of the fact, that beside Pascendi dominici gregis there is the "1907 syllabus" Lamentabili sane exitu as well as the motu proprio Praestantia Scripturae. The latter explicitly condemns modernists ipso facto, latae sententiae, and according to the 1917 Code of Canon Law (Can. 188/4) they loose their offices ipso facto.
Moreover, in order to check the daily increasing audacity of many modernists who are endeavoring by all kinds of sophistry and devices to detract from the force and efficacy not only of the decree “Lamentabili sane exitu” (the so-called Syllabus), issued by our order by the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition on July 3 of the present year, but also of our encyclical letters “Pascendi dominici gregis” given on September 8 of this same year, we do by our apostolic authority repeat and confirm both that decree of the Supreme Sacred Congregation and those encyclical letters of ours, adding the penalty of excommunication against their contradictors, and this we declare and decree that should anybody, which may God forbid, be so rash as to defend any one of the propositions, opinions or teachings condemned in these docuмents he falls, ipso facto, under the censure contained under the chapter “Docentes” of the constitution “Apostolicae Sedis,” which is the first among the excommunications latae sententiae, simply reserved to the Roman Pontiff. This excommunication is to be understood as salvis poenis, which may be incurred by those who have violated in any way the said docuмents, as propagators and defenders of heresies, when their propositions, opinions and teachings are heretical, as has happened more than once in the case of the adversaries of both these docuмents, especially when they advocate the errors of the modernists that is, the synthesis of all heresies.
Lamentabili sane exitu, July 3, 1907, on papalencyclicals.net (http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10lamen.htm)
Pascendi dominici gregis, September 8, 1907, on vatican.va (http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis.html)
Praestantia Scripturae, November 18, 1907, papalencyclicals.net (http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius10/p10prasc.htm)
CIC 1917, on intratext.com (without footnotes) (http://www.intratext.com/IXT/LAT0813/_PI.HTM)
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So the legitimate authority of the Catholic Church is one and the same as the authority of the conciliar sect? Is this what Pius X was really saying? Where is there Church teaching to support this idea?
More from Pascendi:
....and because it is necessary for them [Modernists] to remain within the ranks of the Church in order that they may gradually transform the collective conscience - thus unconsciously avowing that the common conscience is not with them, and that they have no right to claim to be its interpreters.
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More from Pascendi:
....and because it is necessary for them [Modernists] to remain within the ranks of the Church in order that they may gradually transform the collective conscience - thus unconsciously avowing that the common conscience is not with them, and that they have no right to claim to be its interpreters.
The need for them to remain in the ranks is not the same as them actually doing so.
Eta: it seems that those who continue to give them legitimacy give them EXACTLY what they need
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Why do I get the thread "Catholic League Defends Mortal Sin" when I go to page 1 of this thread? Is it just me?
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Why do I get the thread "Catholic League Defends Mortal Sin" when I go to page 1 of this thread? Is it just me?
Because it's correct. Geremia changed his post title
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The need for them to remain in the ranks is not the same as them actually doing so.
Eta: it seems that those who continue to give them legitimacy give them EXACTLY what they need
The pope is saying in order for the modernists to continue their destruction, it is necessary for them to remain within the ranks. That is literally what he says. Which is to say they could not continue the destruction were they not within the ranks. Since the destruction continues with no signs of it stopping, it is safe to say the Modernist heretics are certainly, still within the ranks of the Church today - no?
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More from Pascendi:
....and because it is necessary for them [Modernists] to remain within the ranks of the Church in order that they may gradually transform the collective conscience - thus unconsciously avowing that the common conscience is not with them, and that they have no right to claim to be its interpreters.
Uhm, he's talking about the ones that try to stay hidden. Only MANIFEST heresy excludes from membership in the Church, and not secret heresy. But there's absolutely nothing hidden about the Modernism (and heresy) of the Vatican II popes. They're all out in the open now and have taken control of the Church's material power structures.
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The pope is saying in order for the modernists to continue their destruction, it is necessary for them to remain within the ranks. That is literally what he says. Which is to say they could not continue the destruction were they not within the ranks. Since the destruction continues with no signs of it stopping, it is safe to say the Modernist heretics are certainly, still within the ranks of the Church today - no?
They appear to be in the ranks. Those that recognize manifest heretics as "certainly" in the ranks give them the legitimacy they need to continue their destruction.
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The pope is saying in order for the modernists to continue their destruction, it is necessary for them to remain within the ranks. That is literally what he says.
Right, in order to destroy the Church, they need to avoid being kicked out or just leaving ... so they keep a low profile so they cannot be flushed out. St. Pius X created the Sodalitium precisely in order to flush these guys out. But the difference here has to do with whether or not their heresy is manifest.
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Why do I get the thread "Catholic League Defends Mortal Sin" when I go to page 1 of this thread? Is it just me?
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Uhm, he's talking about the ones that try to stay hidden. Only MANIFEST heresy excludes from membership in the Church, and not secret heresy. But there's absolutely nothing hidden about the Modernism (and heresy) of the Vatican II popes. They're all out in the open now and have taken control of the Church's material power structures.
Whatever. The fact is, if they were not within the ranks, that means they've left the ranks, which means Catholics are back in charge, which means we would see the reversal or the beginnings of the destruction's reversal, not the continuation of destruction we see today.
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Why do I get the thread "Catholic League Defends Mortal Sin" when I go to page 1 of this thread? Is it just me?
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/catholic-league-defends-mortal-sin/msg623654/#msg623654
Because it's correct. Geremia changed his post title
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Because it's correct. Geremia changed his post title
Geremia does that a lot -- also on other forums. ;)
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https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/catholic-league-defends-mortal-sin/msg623654/#msg623654
Because it's correct. Geremia changed his post title
I meant to say that if I post to the thread Pascendi on Modernists "in the very veins and heart of the Church" (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/catholic-league-defends-mortal-sin/msg623661/#msg623661) it ends up in this thread about the Catholic League. If I'm on page 5 of Pascendi on Modernists "in the very veins and heart of the Church" (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/catholic-league-defends-mortal-sin/msg623661/#msg623661) , and then go to page one to follow the thread from the beginning, I get the Catholic League thread.
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Whatever. The fact is, if they were not within the ranks, that means they've left the ranks, which means Catholics are back in charge, which means we would see the reversal or the beginnings of the destruction's reversal, not the continuation of destruction we see today.
There's your quote about Pascendi and I respond and it says Catholic League if I had scrolled to page one before posting.
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There's your quote about Pascendi and I respond and it says Catholic League if I had scrolled to page one before posting.
The title can be changed to whatever you want, just go up and change it anytime you post, but doing so won't change the thread title the OP started with. Geremia simply changed it, in so doing, anyone who quotes from his post will have the same title.