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Author Topic: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day  (Read 2236 times)

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Offline Mr G

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Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
« on: December 26, 2019, 04:22:22 PM »
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  • https://www.complicitclergy.com/2019/12/25/catholic-hermits-excommunicated-on-christmas-day/



    Deacon Nick Donnelly has reported that the Hermits of Westray received notification of their excommunication on Christmas Day.  The three Scottish hermits were reportedly excommunicated for a post on their website entitled “The Declaration.”  In the post, the hermits declare:
    Quote
     Never in history has there been such a Pope, who by his actions, words and teaching, has thrown the whole Church into confusion. There have been bad and immoral Popes like John XII, and Alexander VI, there have been mad Popes, like Urban VI, there have been severe and unbalanced reforming Popes like Paul IV, and there have been pleasure loving Popes like Leo X, but none of them have spread such alarm throughout the Catholic Church. Such days have never been seen since the days of the Arian heresy, and yet these days are far, far worse.
      
    A terrible darkness has spread over the world and the Church. Modernism, Secularism, Humanism, and Scientism are eroding the ancient Truths of Faith; and aided by the poisonous ideology of Evolution, which is no science at all, have convinced many in the Church that Man is getting better all the time. Thus ignoring the fact that the last century has seen tyrants and wars which eclipse all others in recorded history, for aided by science the evils of war and tyranny have been magnified beyond all imagining, and that terrifying magnification is ever increasing, and evil is truly unrestrained.

    Tragically the head of the Church on Earth, Pope Francis, by his utterances, his behaviour, his teaching and his actions, has shown himself to be indeed a great heretic. He has proclaimed that no-one goes to Hell, he has undermined the indissolubility of marriage, he has approved of couples living together, he has behaved in an ambiguous fashion towards ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, and received warmly, not only ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples, but a transgender person and his fiancé and pro-abortion advocates. Pope Francis has said that the death penalty is inadmissible, and finally, in outright contradiction to the First Commandment, has said that God has willed all religions, and that this must be taught throughout the Church in her seminaries, her universities, and her schools.
    The hermits go on to lament the silence of the bishops, stating:
    Quote
    In all this, silence has enveloped the bishops. Unable or unwilling to confront the successor of Peter; either through human respect, fear of schism, or through the thought of being cast out of their dioceses by the Pope, they have been reduced to a state of helplessness.  Integrity has collapsed, fortitude has given way to cowardice and the flock are left, not only to the wolves, but to ravening lions, and every other conceivable violent personification of heresy and untruth .  The bishops have forgotten how to teach , are powerless to correct, and seem unable to prevent the cruel invasion of the LGBT propaganda machine into Catholic schools, and nowhere is this more evident than in Britain.
    Some people who have commented on Donnelly’s post have said that Bishop Brian McGee had no choice but to excommunicate the hermits because their “declaration” stated they were withdrawing from the pope.  Others have stated the support the hermits’ “declaration.”

    The members of the hermitage include Father Stephen de Kerdrel, Sister Colette Roberts and Brother Damon Kelly who had been arrested in the past for his public criticisms of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and abortion.

    TAKE ACTION: Those interested in expressing their opinions directly to Bishop McGee can do so by sending him an email.
     UPDATE: We have received word that Bishop McGee is apparently blocking emails. You may need to resort to calling him at 01631 567436.

    Offline King Wenceslas

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #1 on: December 26, 2019, 04:50:18 PM »
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  • Popes must always be perfect in doctrine and dogma or SEDEVACANTISM occurs. O what Vatican I has created.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #2 on: December 26, 2019, 05:26:23 PM »
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  • Popes must always be perfect in doctrine and dogma or SEDEVACANTISM occurs. O what Vatican I has created.

    What are you talking about?  That's a total straw man against sedevacantism.  Nobody says that Popes must be perfect doctrinally.  Nor does any of this have anything to do with Vatican I.

    Sedevacantists merely hold ... as all Catholic theologians have always held ... that the Church's Magisterium and Universal Discipline cannot fail.

    And, finally, there's no indication in the Declaration that they are even sedevacantists.  They merely say that they are withdrawing from him ... almost along the lines of Father Chazal's sede-impoundism.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #3 on: December 26, 2019, 05:36:27 PM »
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  • What are you talking about?  That's a total straw man against sedevacantism.  Nobody says that Popes must be perfect doctrinally.  Nor does any of this have anything to do with Vatican I.

    Sedevacantists merely hold ... as all Catholic theologians have always held ... that the Church's Magisterium and Universal Discipline cannot fail.

    And, finally, there's no indication in the Declaration that they are even sedevacantists.  They merely say that they are withdrawing from him ... almost along the lines of Father Chazal's sede-impoundism.

    You mean Fr. Chazal's R&R.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #4 on: December 26, 2019, 05:57:33 PM »
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  • You mean Fr. Chazal's R&R.

    Nope.  Classic R&R holds that Bergoglio continues to have authority and must be obeyed and assented to when he happens (by sheer luck) to teach something true.  Father Chazal holds that they are completely bereft of authority.

    PS:  Father Chazal introduced the term sede-impoundism himself when asked about his position.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #5 on: December 26, 2019, 06:08:16 PM »
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  • Quote
    Nobody says that Popes must be perfect doctrinally. 
    As a pure technicality, this is the case.  However, a lot of Sedes get really close to that by insisting that all papal teaching has to be safe to follow at all times.

    I'd actually say that's the standard Sede position.  Though I think your position is more nuanced, probably closer to that of the Dimonds in terms of how "off" you think a legitimate pope can be.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #6 on: December 26, 2019, 07:53:40 PM »
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  • As a pure technicality, this is the case.  However, a lot of Sedes get really close to that by insisting that all papal teaching has to be safe to follow at all times.

    Now you're getting closer.  At least you're adding the qualifier "papal teaching," whereas the previous statement would include any personal opinion of a Pope.

    No, not all papal teaching is safe to follow at all times in every detail.  But authoritative Papal teaching addressed to the Universal Church regarding a matter of faith and morals.  In other words, papal teaching that meets nearly all the notes of papal infallibility is in fact safe to follow in its substance.  You cannot have Popes teaching the same substantial errors regarding faith and morals to the Universal Church consistently over the course of 60+ years.  That would entail a defection of the Magisterium.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #7 on: December 26, 2019, 07:56:25 PM »
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  • Though I think your position is more nuanced, probably closer to that of the Dimonds in terms of how "off" you think a legitimate pope can be.  

    No, this isn't the Dimonds' teaching:

    Msgr. Fenton:
    Quote
    ... God has given the Holy Father a kind of infallibility distinct from the charism of doctrinal infallibility in the strict sense. He has so constructed and ordered the Church that those who follow the directives given to the entire kingdom of God on earth will never be brought into the position of ruining themselves spiritually through this obedience. Our Lord dwells within His Church in such a way that those who obey disciplinary and doctrinal directives of this society can never find themselves displeasing God through their adherence to the teachings and the commands given to the universal Church militant. Hence there can be no valid reason to discountenance even the non-infallible teaching authority of Christ’s vicar on earth.
    ...
    It is, of course, possible that the Church might come to modify its stand on some detail of teaching presented as non-infallible matter in a papal encyclical. The nature of the auctoritas providentiae doctrinalis within the Church is such, however, that this fallibility extends to questions of relatively minute detail or of particular application. The body of doctrine on the rights and duties of labor, on the Church and State, or on any other subject treated extensively in a series of papal letters directed to and normative for the entire Church militant could not be radically or completely erroneous. The infallible security Christ wills that His disciples should enjoy within His Church is utterly incompatible with such a possibility.


    Offline Portimao

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #8 on: December 27, 2019, 03:34:20 PM »
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  • Our Lady watch over and protect these hermits, and Our Lord bless them. Amen.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #9 on: December 28, 2019, 08:25:23 AM »
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  • The entirety of the Hermit's declaration isn't posted in the OP, nor is it posted on the "Complicit Clergy" blog, though there is a link to the entire declaration on the Complicit Clergy blog.

    There are at least two more paragraph's to the declaration, which I suspect is what got them into trouble. Here's a part of the last two paragraphs:

    "We who are watchmen of the Church, who must speak from the watch tower of Truth, have no option but to withdraw our obedience from Pope Francis and sever communication with the Holy See (xxi). We do this with great fear and trepidation, but we cannot take part in the Pope's sin. This is not an act of schism, nor is it an act of defiance, it is an act of real prudence...."

    https://choosing-him.blogspot.com/2019/12/scottish-hermits-critical-of-francis.html

    I found the above link on the Catholic Truth blog in Scotland, and the owner of said blog is an adherent of the SSPX, and she is critical of the Hermit's stance. Maybe she believes that the Hermits are sedevacantists. But I think not, since they do refer to Francis as "Pope Francis."

    I find it interesting that Bishop McKee is the one who has excommunicated the hermits, since he is not the ordinary for the Orkney Islands. The ordinary for Orkney is Bishop Hugh Gilbert. Bishop Gilbert has been known to be sympathetic somewhat to tradition (a rarity in Scotland); not sure why he was not involved in their hermit's excommunication.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #10 on: December 28, 2019, 08:56:42 AM »
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  • But I think not, since they do refer to Francis as "Pope Francis."

    Yes, their language throughout implies that they consider him the Pope.  It sounds as if, by withdrawing from communion with him, they are doing what Father Chazal also considers appropriate ... "impounding" him and considering him vitandus on account of heresy.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #11 on: December 28, 2019, 03:49:06 PM »
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  • That sure didn't take long.

    It always amazes me, the breathtaking speed with which anyone in the Vatican 2 sect gets excommunicated if they question any of the doctrines of modernism. If anything shows the malice and pertinacity of the modernist hierarchy, it is surely this, the way they preach a doctrine of accompaniment and seeking good in the teachings of false religions, and peaceful religious coexistence, but crush any opposition to modernism with amazing efficiency and ruthlessness.

    So much for the modernist hierarchy being "material heretics".

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #12 on: December 28, 2019, 04:21:05 PM »
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  • the Hermits of Westray received notification of their excommunication on Christmas Day.
    Sounds like one of the coolest Christmas cards of all time. :cowboy:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #13 on: December 28, 2019, 04:33:08 PM »
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  • It always amazes me, the breathtaking speed with which anyone in the Vatican 2 sect gets excommunicated if they question any of the doctrines of modernism.

    Meanwhile, they're lifting the excommunications against the Orthodox schismatics and others.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
    « Reply #14 on: December 29, 2019, 11:55:14 PM »
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  • https://www.complicitclergy.com/2019/12/25/catholic-hermits-excommunicated-on-christmas-day/



    Deacon Nick Donnelly has reported that the Hermits of Westray received notification of their excommunication on Christmas Day.  The three Scottish hermits were reportedly excommunicated for a post on their website entitled “The Declaration.”  In the post, the hermits declare:The hermits go on to lament the silence of the bishops, stating:Some people who have commented on Donnelly’s post have said that Bishop Brian McGee had no choice but to excommunicate the hermits because their “declaration” stated they were withdrawing from the pope.  Others have stated the support the hermits’ “declaration.”

    The members of the hermitage include Father Stephen de Kerdrel, Sister Colette Roberts and Brother Damon Kelly who had been arrested in the past for his public criticisms of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and abortion.

    TAKE ACTION: Those interested in expressing their opinions directly to Bishop McGee can do so by sending him an email.
     UPDATE: We have received word that Bishop McGee is apparently blocking emails. You may need to resort to calling him at 01631 567436.
    If this is how they feel then why should they care about being excommunicated?