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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Mr G on December 26, 2019, 04:22:22 PM

Title: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Mr G on December 26, 2019, 04:22:22 PM
https://www.complicitclergy.com/2019/12/25/catholic-hermits-excommunicated-on-christmas-day/



Deacon Nick Donnelly has reported (https://twitter.com/ProtecttheFaith/status/1209558656859168769?s=20) that the Hermits of Westray  (http://www.trumpeteer.co.uk/)received notification of their excommunication on Christmas Day.  The three Scottish hermits were reportedly excommunicated for a post on their website entitled “The Declaration. (http://www.trumpeteer.co.uk/the-declaration/4594595263)”  In the post, the hermits declare:
Quote
 Never in history has there been such a Pope, who by his actions, words and teaching, has thrown the whole Church into confusion. There have been bad and immoral Popes like John XII, and Alexander VI, there have been mad Popes, like Urban VI, there have been severe and unbalanced reforming Popes like Paul IV, and there have been pleasure loving Popes like Leo X, but none of them have spread such alarm throughout the Catholic Church. Such days have never been seen since the days of the Arian heresy, and yet these days are far, far worse.
  
A terrible darkness has spread over the world and the Church. Modernism, Secularism, Humanism, and Scientism are eroding the ancient Truths of Faith; and aided by the poisonous ideology of Evolution, which is no science at all, have convinced many in the Church that Man is getting better all the time. Thus ignoring the fact that the last century has seen tyrants and wars which eclipse all others in recorded history, for aided by science the evils of war and tyranny have been magnified beyond all imagining, and that terrifying magnification is ever increasing, and evil is truly unrestrained.

Tragically the head of the Church on Earth, Pope Francis, by his utterances, his behaviour, his teaching and his actions, has shown himself to be indeed a great heretic. He has proclaimed that no-one goes to Hell, he has undermined the indissolubility of marriage, he has approved of couples living together, he has behaved in an ambiguous fashion towards ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, and received warmly, not only ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ couples, but a transgender person and his fiancé and pro-abortion advocates. Pope Francis has said that the death penalty is inadmissible, and finally, in outright contradiction to the First Commandment, has said that God has willed all religions, and that this must be taught throughout the Church in her seminaries, her universities, and her schools.
The hermits go on to lament the silence of the bishops, stating:
Quote
In all this, silence has enveloped the bishops. Unable or unwilling to confront the successor of Peter; either through human respect, fear of schism, or through the thought of being cast out of their dioceses by the Pope, they have been reduced to a state of helplessness.  Integrity has collapsed, fortitude has given way to cowardice and the flock are left, not only to the wolves, but to ravening lions, and every other conceivable violent personification of heresy and untruth .  The bishops have forgotten how to teach , are powerless to correct, and seem unable to prevent the cruel invasion of the LGBT propaganda machine into Catholic schools, and nowhere is this more evident than in Britain.
Some people who have commented on Donnelly’s post have said that Bishop Brian McGee (https://www.rcdai.org.uk/bishop/) had no choice but to excommunicate the hermits because their “declaration” stated they were withdrawing from the pope.  Others have stated the support the hermits’ “declaration.”

The members of the hermitage include Father Stephen de Kerdrel, Sister Colette Roberts and Brother Damon Kelly who had been arrested in the past for his public criticisms of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and abortion.

TAKE ACTION: Those interested in expressing their opinions directly to Bishop McGee can do so by sending him an email. (bishopbrian@rcdai.org.uk)
 UPDATE: We have received word that Bishop McGee is apparently blocking emails. You may need to resort to calling him at 01631 567436 (http://tel:01631%20567436).
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: King Wenceslas on December 26, 2019, 04:50:18 PM
Popes must always be perfect in doctrine and dogma or SEDEVACANTISM occurs. O what Vatican I has created.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 26, 2019, 05:26:23 PM
Popes must always be perfect in doctrine and dogma or SEDEVACANTISM occurs. O what Vatican I has created.

What are you talking about?  That's a total straw man against sedevacantism.  Nobody says that Popes must be perfect doctrinally.  Nor does any of this have anything to do with Vatican I.

Sedevacantists merely hold ... as all Catholic theologians have always held ... that the Church's Magisterium and Universal Discipline cannot fail.

And, finally, there's no indication in the Declaration that they are even sedevacantists.  They merely say that they are withdrawing from him ... almost along the lines of Father Chazal's sede-impoundism.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 26, 2019, 05:36:27 PM
What are you talking about?  That's a total straw man against sedevacantism.  Nobody says that Popes must be perfect doctrinally.  Nor does any of this have anything to do with Vatican I.

Sedevacantists merely hold ... as all Catholic theologians have always held ... that the Church's Magisterium and Universal Discipline cannot fail.

And, finally, there's no indication in the Declaration that they are even sedevacantists.  They merely say that they are withdrawing from him ... almost along the lines of Father Chazal's sede-impoundism.

You mean Fr. Chazal's R&R.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 26, 2019, 05:57:33 PM
You mean Fr. Chazal's R&R.

Nope.  Classic R&R holds that Bergoglio continues to have authority and must be obeyed and assented to when he happens (by sheer luck) to teach something true.  Father Chazal holds that they are completely bereft of authority.

PS:  Father Chazal introduced the term sede-impoundism himself when asked about his position.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: ByzCat3000 on December 26, 2019, 06:08:16 PM
Quote
Nobody says that Popes must be perfect doctrinally. 
As a pure technicality, this is the case.  However, a lot of Sedes get really close to that by insisting that all papal teaching has to be safe to follow at all times.

I'd actually say that's the standard Sede position.  Though I think your position is more nuanced, probably closer to that of the Dimonds in terms of how "off" you think a legitimate pope can be.  
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 26, 2019, 07:53:40 PM
As a pure technicality, this is the case.  However, a lot of Sedes get really close to that by insisting that all papal teaching has to be safe to follow at all times.

Now you're getting closer.  At least you're adding the qualifier "papal teaching," whereas the previous statement would include any personal opinion of a Pope.

No, not all papal teaching is safe to follow at all times in every detail.  But authoritative Papal teaching addressed to the Universal Church regarding a matter of faith and morals.  In other words, papal teaching that meets nearly all the notes of papal infallibility is in fact safe to follow in its substance.  You cannot have Popes teaching the same substantial errors regarding faith and morals to the Universal Church consistently over the course of 60+ years.  That would entail a defection of the Magisterium.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 26, 2019, 07:56:25 PM
Though I think your position is more nuanced, probably closer to that of the Dimonds in terms of how "off" you think a legitimate pope can be.  

No, this isn't the Dimonds' teaching:

Msgr. Fenton:
Quote
... God has given the Holy Father a kind of infallibility distinct from the charism of doctrinal infallibility in the strict sense. He has so constructed and ordered the Church that those who follow the directives given to the entire kingdom of God on earth will never be brought into the position of ruining themselves spiritually through this obedience. Our Lord dwells within His Church in such a way that those who obey disciplinary and doctrinal directives of this society can never find themselves displeasing God through their adherence to the teachings and the commands given to the universal Church militant. Hence there can be no valid reason to discountenance even the non-infallible teaching authority of Christ’s vicar on earth.
...
It is, of course, possible that the Church might come to modify its stand on some detail of teaching presented as non-infallible matter in a papal encyclical. The nature of the auctoritas providentiae doctrinalis within the Church is such, however, that this fallibility extends to questions of relatively minute detail or of particular application. The body of doctrine on the rights and duties of labor, on the Church and State, or on any other subject treated extensively in a series of papal letters directed to and normative for the entire Church militant could not be radically or completely erroneous. The infallible security Christ wills that His disciples should enjoy within His Church is utterly incompatible with such a possibility.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Portimao on December 27, 2019, 03:34:20 PM
Our Lady watch over and protect these hermits, and Our Lord bless them. Amen.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Meg on December 28, 2019, 08:25:23 AM
The entirety of the Hermit's declaration isn't posted in the OP, nor is it posted on the "Complicit Clergy" blog, though there is a link to the entire declaration on the Complicit Clergy blog.

There are at least two more paragraph's to the declaration, which I suspect is what got them into trouble. Here's a part of the last two paragraphs:

"We who are watchmen of the Church, who must speak from the watch tower of Truth, have no option but to withdraw our obedience from Pope Francis and sever communication with the Holy See (xxi). We do this with great fear and trepidation, but we cannot take part in the Pope's sin. This is not an act of schism, nor is it an act of defiance, it is an act of real prudence...."

https://choosing-him.blogspot.com/2019/12/scottish-hermits-critical-of-francis.html

I found the above link on the Catholic Truth blog in Scotland, and the owner of said blog is an adherent of the SSPX, and she is critical of the Hermit's stance. Maybe she believes that the Hermits are sedevacantists. But I think not, since they do refer to Francis as "Pope Francis."

I find it interesting that Bishop McKee is the one who has excommunicated the hermits, since he is not the ordinary for the Orkney Islands. The ordinary for Orkney is Bishop Hugh Gilbert. Bishop Gilbert has been known to be sympathetic somewhat to tradition (a rarity in Scotland); not sure why he was not involved in their hermit's excommunication.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 28, 2019, 08:56:42 AM
But I think not, since they do refer to Francis as "Pope Francis."

Yes, their language throughout implies that they consider him the Pope.  It sounds as if, by withdrawing from communion with him, they are doing what Father Chazal also considers appropriate ... "impounding" him and considering him vitandus on account of heresy.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Yeti on December 28, 2019, 03:49:06 PM
That sure didn't take long.

It always amazes me, the breathtaking speed with which anyone in the Vatican 2 sect gets excommunicated if they question any of the doctrines of modernism. If anything shows the malice and pertinacity of the modernist hierarchy, it is surely this, the way they preach a doctrine of accompaniment and seeking good in the teachings of false religions, and peaceful religious coexistence, but crush any opposition to modernism with amazing efficiency and ruthlessness.

So much for the modernist hierarchy being "material heretics".
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Yeti on December 28, 2019, 04:21:05 PM
the Hermits of Westray  (http://www.trumpeteer.co.uk/)received notification of their excommunication on Christmas Day.
Sounds like one of the coolest Christmas cards of all time. :cowboy:
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 28, 2019, 04:33:08 PM
It always amazes me, the breathtaking speed with which anyone in the Vatican 2 sect gets excommunicated if they question any of the doctrines of modernism.

Meanwhile, they're lifting the excommunications against the Orthodox schismatics and others.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: poche on December 29, 2019, 11:55:14 PM
https://www.complicitclergy.com/2019/12/25/catholic-hermits-excommunicated-on-christmas-day/



Deacon Nick Donnelly has reported (https://twitter.com/ProtecttheFaith/status/1209558656859168769?s=20) that the Hermits of Westray  (http://www.trumpeteer.co.uk/)received notification of their excommunication on Christmas Day.  The three Scottish hermits were reportedly excommunicated for a post on their website entitled “The Declaration. (http://www.trumpeteer.co.uk/the-declaration/4594595263)”  In the post, the hermits declare:The hermits go on to lament the silence of the bishops, stating:Some people who have commented on Donnelly’s post have said that Bishop Brian McGee (https://www.rcdai.org.uk/bishop/) had no choice but to excommunicate the hermits because their “declaration” stated they were withdrawing from the pope.  Others have stated the support the hermits’ “declaration.”

The members of the hermitage include Father Stephen de Kerdrel, Sister Colette Roberts and Brother Damon Kelly who had been arrested in the past for his public criticisms of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and abortion.

TAKE ACTION: Those interested in expressing their opinions directly to Bishop McGee can do so by sending him an email. (bishopbrian@rcdai.org.uk)
 UPDATE: We have received word that Bishop McGee is apparently blocking emails. You may need to resort to calling him at 01631 567436 (http://tel:01631%20567436).
If this is how they feel then why should they care about being excommunicated?
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Mark 79 on December 30, 2019, 12:13:39 AM
Poche, Nobody here owes you any answers.

You have been publicly docuмented as a willful, habitual liar and blasphemer.

You have not publicly repented all your lies and blasphemy that were condemned by Matthew.

You have not made public reparation for your lies and blasphemy.

You owe us a firm purpose of amendment and reparation.


[snip]…

3. Claiming Pope Francis did or said something he did not
The truth doesn't need you to "modify", spin, or twist it. State the truth simply and let the chips fall where they may. You never know, it might open your eyes to the truth in other areas as well. Willfully deceiving yourself, or accepting a lie in place of the truth, eventually leads to a complete inability to perceive the truth. In the end, the miserable soul can even worship satan (the father of lies) in place of God (who is Truth).

4. Claiming there is no Crisis in the Church, Pope St. Pius X had basically the same stance on the Jews/тαℓмυd as Pope Francis, etc.
I allow members to deal with the Crisis in the Church according to their own lights, prudence, and conscience. However, denying the Crisis altogether puts you completely outside the Traditional Catholic movement. This is a Traditional Catholic forum. If you want to ask questions of the many well informed and educated Catholics here, be my guest. But you must respect the Traditional Catholic beliefs and position. Even many conservative Novus Ordo Catholics know that Pope Francis is a different kind of Pope (in a bad way) than good old popes like St. Pius X. Even many who choose to say in the Novus Ordo acknowledge there is a huge Crisis in the Church.

5. Failure to acknowledge some actual errors in the modern Catholic Church, for example the post-Vatican II errors on the Jews ("Elder brothers in the Church", "Their covenant is still valid", "They don't need to convert") which is in direct contradiction to pre-Vatican II Popes, including St. Peter: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know most certainly, that God hath made both Lord and Christ, this same Jesus, whom you have crucified. Now when they had heard these things, they had compunction in their heart, and said to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles: What shall we do, men and brethren? But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call. And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation." (Acts 2:36-40)


This is a formal warning for Poche, that he cease posting these errors on CathInfo and abide by the forum rules as I have described them. Failure to comply could result in further moderator action(s). 

CathInfo members are encouraged to report any violations of these rules, by Poche or any other member. Please use the "Report to Moderator" link in the lower-right corner of each post, send me a PM, or e-mail me: matthew at cathinfo dot com.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: poche on December 31, 2019, 05:23:27 AM
I repent of all of my sins and in whatever way I have offended God. I aks that you pray that God will accept my contrition when I go before him.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: 2Vermont on December 31, 2019, 07:34:25 AM
And, finally, there's no indication in the Declaration that they are even sedevacantists.  They merely say that they are withdrawing from him ... almost along the lines of Father Chazal's sede-impoundism.
It is much more likely that this group would condemn sedevacantists. 
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Nishant Xavier on December 31, 2019, 07:56:17 AM
As far as it goes, I think it's good to preach the Faith, and condemn all the errors opposed to it, as these hermits did; but as to presumptions and judgments about the Pope's pertinacity, that is really beyond the competence of either laymen or hermits, and falls solely to the Bishops of the Church; who, beside the Pope, are by divine law, the only judges in such matters. One could have submitted a list of the Pope's errors, and given it to the Bishops to judge; trusting that the Holy Ghost would take it from there.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 31, 2019, 08:10:33 AM
As far as it goes, I think it's good to preach the Faith, and condemn all the errors opposed to it, as these hermits did; but as to presumptions and judgments about the Pope's pertinacity, that is really beyond the competence of either laymen or hermits, and falls solely to the Bishops of the Church; who, beside the Pope, are by divine law, the only judges in such matters. One could have submitted a list of the Pope's errors, and given it to the Bishops to judge; trusting that the Holy Ghost would take it from there.

:laugh1:

With the exception of that small handful of Cardinals, these so-called "bishops" (assuming they're even valid) are complicit in the heresies and/or cowards.  Very few of them actually have enough faith to be considered competent "judges in such matters".

Bergoglio has been admonished multiple times about the heresy in Amoris Laetitia and has ignored these admonitions, and doubled down on the heretical interpretation.  There's no doubt but that Bergoglio is a pertinacious heretic.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Nishant Xavier on December 31, 2019, 08:20:43 AM
Where is Faith in the Divine Promise to the Church, and Trust in the Perpetual Guidance of the Holy Spirit promised to the Bishops in such opinions? Both the Papacy and the Episcopacy cannot fail. I thank the Good God there are good Bishops like Bp. Athanasius and Bp. Fellay, good Cardinals like Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Sarah, preaching the Truth, and opposing error, without falling into an opposite error of "bitter zeal" which does not help us. It is the Holy Ghost who appoints Bishops to rule the Church, as St. Paul the Apostle says; and though of course that is through the Ministry of St. Peter and his Successors, as Fr. Gueranger writes, nevertheless the Holy Ghost oversees the process and His Perpetual Guidance will not fail. He will raise up Good Shepherds for us in His Hierarchy. 

Fr. Suarez: "In the first place, who should pronounce such a sentence? Some say that it should be the Cardinals; and the Church could undoubtedly assign them this faculty, above all if it were established with the consent and decision of the Supreme Pontiffs, as was done for the election. But to this day we do not read anywhere that such a judgment has been confided to them. For this reason, it must be affirmed that, of itself, it belongs to all the Bishops of the Church. For since they are the ordinary pastors and the pillars of the Church, one should consider that such a case concerns them. And since by divine law there is no greater reason to affirm that the matter involves some Bishops more than others, and since, according to human law, nothing has been established in the matter, it must necessarily be held that the matter should be referred to all of them, and even to a general Council. This is the common opinion of the Doctors."
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 31, 2019, 08:22:44 AM
Where is Faith in the Divine Promise to the Church, and Trust in the Perpetual Guidance of the Holy Spirit promised to the Bishops in such opinions?

This Conciliar establishment is not the Catholic Church but a false religion.  Despite what +Fellay claimed, this is NOT the "one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic" Church.  In fact, the Conciliar establishment decidedly lacks those notes.  It is so riddled with heresy that it's lost the oneness (there's no unity of faith and morals).  By their own numbers, 95%+ of Novus Ordo pew sitters are heretics.  Where's the holiness, where Bergoglio now approves of corrupt morals (cohabitation and adultery), approves of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, condones abortion, has covered up the crimes of various pedophiles?  Where's the holiness in the Church's official prayer, the New Mass?  So both in practice and in moral teaching (which is completely relativist), the holiness is not there.  Catholic?  Where's the continuity with the Church of Tradition, which is required for it to be catholic?  Same question for Apostolic?  There's only a material continuity, which does not suffice for Apostolicity?

So +Fellay is a liar in pretending that this Conciliar establishment is the same "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic" Church.  It completely lacks any of those marks.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Nishant Xavier on December 31, 2019, 08:30:17 AM
Where you find the Hierarchy that is appointed with the Pope and has received power of jurisdiction from him, there you will find the Catholic Hierarchy. It is that Hierarchy, as Rev. Fr. Jean Michel Gleize admirably wrote, that "holds the promise of salvation".

Anyway, as we know Bishops have a mission from the Pope and the Church in a formal sense, in a more general and imprecise sense, one could say "the mission" of the Catholic Faithful in these times is: to pray, sacrifice, believe, hope, remain united to Good Shepherds.

Just my perspective. God will not fail His Church. He has Promised, also through His Mother, to bring about the Triumph of the Church and the Immaculate Heart in Good Time, through the Pope and the Bishops, and we know He cannot fail to keep His Promises. 

God Bless.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Nishant Xavier on December 31, 2019, 08:58:40 AM
Catholics have been confused by modern theories about so-called and misapplied "material continuity". Just see how the CE explains it.

"Apostolicity is the mark by which the Church of today is recognized as identical with the Church founded by Jesus Christ upon the Apostles. It is of great importance because it is the surest indication of the true Church of Christ, it is most easily examined, and it virtually contains the other three marks, namely, Unity, Sanctity, and Catholicity ...  

Apostolicity of mission is a guarantee of Apostolicity of doctrine. St. Irenæus (Adv. Haeres, IV, xxvi, n. 2) says: "Wherefore we must obey the priests [i.e. the Bishops; high priests] of the Church who have succession from the Apostles, as we have shown, who, together with succession in the episcopate, have received the certain mark of truth according to the will of the Father; all others, however, are to be suspected, who separated themselves from the principal succession" ...  An authoritative mission to teach is absolutely necessary, a man-given mission is not authoritative. Hence any concept of Apostolicity that excludes authoritative union with the Apostolic mission robs the ministry of its Divine character.

Apostolicity, or Apostolic succession, then, means that the mission conferred by Jesus Christ upon the Apostles must pass from then to their legitimate successors, in an unbroken line, until the end of the world. This notion of Apostolicity is evolved from the words of Christ Himself, the practice of the Apostles, and the teaching of the Fathers and theologians of the Church ... Billuart (III, 306) concludes his remarks on Apostolicity in the words of St. Jerome: "We must abide in that Church, which was founded by the Apostles, and endures to this day.: Mazella (De Relig. et Eccl., 359), after speaking of Apostolic succession as an uninterrupted substitution of persons in the place of the Apostles, insists upon the necessity of jurisdiction or authoritative transmission, thus excluding the hypothesis that a new mission could ever be originated by anyone in the place of the mission bestowed by Christ and transmitted in the manner described ...

The history of the Catholic Church from St. Peter, the first Pontiff, to the present Head of the Church, is an evident proof of its Apostolicity ... Apostolicity is not found in any other Church. This is a necessary consequence of the unity of the Church. If there is but one true Church, and if the Catholic Church, as has just been shown, is Apostolic, the necessary inference is that no other Church is Apostolic." http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01648b.htm (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01648b.htm) Hence, there is only one, easily discovered, Apostolic Church. And there alone you will find the Apostolic Hierarchy. And the Charism of Indefectibility in Catholic Doctrine is guaranteed there.

Here's the Truth: "material continuity" in the sense meant by modern sedeprivationists was historically applied by the Catholic Church to the Greek Orthodox Church. But the Greek Orthodox is a defected and schismatic Church that lacks Apostolicity. Hence, to try and apply the principles that were traditionally applied to the Greek Church to the Roman Church is nothing else than to say the Roman Church has defected and lost Apostolicity and become schismatic; all of which is simply impossible and a wrong application.

Don't shoot the messenger; but there it is
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 31, 2019, 09:19:56 AM
Father Gleize (along with Bishop Fellay) gratuitously state that the Conciliar Church has the four marks of the Church.  I'm sorry, XavierSem, but I'm not seeing it.

1) ONE -- this usually refers to unity of faith and morals.  95%+ of the Novus Ordo pew-sitters are heretics ... based on THEIR OWN polls.  Cafeteria Catholicism is the norm in the Conciliar establishment.

2) HOLY -- Bergoglio has publicly promoted idolatry (Pachamama).  Wojtyla was the king of spreading religious indifferentism.  So there's a systemic fail even in terms of the FIRST commandment.  Bergoglio has taught corrupt morals ... Amoris Laetitia, for instance, and a broader moral relativism.  We see the Vatican covering up the entire pedophile mess, and large portions of the hierarchy are actively involved in a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pedophile network.  Liturgical abominations and blasphemies everywhere.  Bergoglio condones ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and transgenderism.  Sacrileges against the Blessed Sacrament abound.  Where is the "Holiness"?

3) CATHOLIC -- complete rupture of faith and morals and worship from the Traditional Catholic Church.

4) APOSTOLIC -- dubious episcopal consecration, and a rupture of mission from the Apostolic Church.

I'm not seeing the Conciliar Church as exhibiting ANY of the four marks of the Church.

As for the source of salvation, perhaps the greatest corruption in the Novus Ordo is the spreading and teaching of religious indifferentism, denying the teaching that the Church is the ark of salvation.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: Ladislaus on December 31, 2019, 09:37:15 AM
Sanctity/Holiness (from the Catholic Encyclopedia):
Quote
To show that the Church possesses the note of holiness it suffices to establish that her teaching is holy .... In regard to her doctrines, it is manifest that the moral law which she proposes as of Divine obligation, is more lofty and more exacting than that which any of the sects has ventured to require. Her vindication of the indissolubility of marriage in the face of a licentious world affords the most conspicuous instance of this. She alone maintains in its integrity her Master's teaching on marriage. Every other religious body without exception has given place to the demands of human passion.

Well, Bergoglio threw that mark out the window with Amoris Laetitia.

Quote
The holiness of the Church's worship is recognized even by the world outside the Church. In the solemn renewal of the Sacrifice of Calvary there lies a mysterious power, which all are forced to own. Even enemies of the Church realize the sanctity of the Mass.

Yes, everyone is so moved to realize the sanctity of the Mass as exhibited in the liturgical abominations that abound throughout the Conciliar establishment.  People everywhere witness to the "mysterious power" of clown masses, liturgical dance, and guitar masses.
Title: Re: Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
Post by: ByzCat3000 on December 31, 2019, 07:35:37 PM
I’m torn.  On the one hand I charitably hope that sincere Sedevacantism is not condemned by God.  However I can’t expect any putative pope to just allow people to straight up say they don’t acknowledge his authority