Author Topic: Catholic Culture: Schismatic Traditionalists (Read 4391 times)

2Vermont · « **on:** October 28, 2013, 04:28:44 AM »

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1056

Since the time of the Second Vatican Council and the changes it brought, a considerable number of disaffected traditional Catholics have joined schismatic sects such as the Society of St. Pius X (founded by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre) and the sedevacantists (who believe, for dubious reasons explained later, that the Chair of Peter is currently vacant). While there are certain peripheral differences between these traditionalist sects, they share the same common denominator: the exclusive use of the Tridentine Mass and the rejection of Vatican II. The angry traditionalist fringe blames Vatican II for causing the current crisis in the Church. They claim that the changes decreed by the Council are heretical; hence, it was a false council and "true" Catholics should not assent to its teachings. But there is an obvious problem with this argument: It has been the traditional teaching of the Church that an ecuмenical council is guided by the Holy Spirit and thus protected from error.

Please discuss.....

Ladislaus · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2013, 10:57:03 AM »

Quote

But there is an obvious problem with this argument: It has been the traditional teaching of the Church that an ecuмenical council is guided by the Holy Spirit and thus protected from error.

He glosses over the distinction between SSPX and sedevacantists (lumps them together), but it's precisely for the reason above that the sedevacantists differ from SSPX.

Mabel · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2013, 11:34:46 AM »

It is how they see it.

It isn't about the mass or rejection of Vatican 2. It is about keeping the Faith. In order to keep the faith passed down to us, those innovations must be rejected but they are not the basis for our end, which is holding fast to our traditions and the Catholic Church that made saints and saved souls. They can't tell me it is the same religion.

The life of a Catholic prior to the 60's:

Born
Day 3, get baptized
Parish catechism with sisters or a priest for 12 years
Receive Catholic education
Mass every Sunday and Holy day
7-8 First Communion
Participate in school and church related activities
Family has at minimum a few statues, prayer books, a Bible in the home
Child graduates from school
Gets married with a nuptial mass
Has 6-10 children
Dies after Extreme Unction and holding the rosary, surrounded by family
Buried in Catholic cemetery, family and parish pray for the soul

Now:
Possible baptism 3-6 months after birth
Public school
Random attendance at CCD, free babysitting service, taught by old lady in polyester pants
Go home after CCD or participate in school sports teams
Novus Ordo when grandma visits or Christmas
First communion at 8-9, if grandma pushes
No Catholic items in home, save an old rosary because it is pretty
Age 14 forced to attend confirmation classes
Confirmed, and graduates from going to church
Graduate public school
Go to college and graduate
Get engaged, get married five years later after living in sin
Contracept for at least one year
Have two children
Divorce
Remarry
Die alone in a nursing home on morphine
Cremated and buried in town cemetery, Novus Ordo priest tells everyone that the person is in heaven

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2013, 01:17:05 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1056

Since the time of the Second Vatican Council and the changes it brought, a considerable number of disaffected traditional Catholics have joined schismatic sects such as the Society of St. Pius X (founded by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre) and the sedevacantists (who believe, for dubious reasons explained later, that the Chair of Peter is currently vacant). While there are certain peripheral differences between these traditionalist sects, they share the same common denominator: the exclusive use of the Tridentine Mass and the rejection of Vatican II. The angry traditionalist fringe blames Vatican II for causing the current crisis in the Church. They claim that the changes decreed by the Council are heretical; hence, it was a false council and "true" Catholics should not assent to its teachings. But there is an obvious problem with this argument: It has been the traditional teaching of the Church that an ecuмenical council is guided by the Holy Spirit and thus protected from error.

Please discuss.....

The above is correct and the point could not have been made better by a sedevacantist. Ecuмenical councils approved by a valid Pope are guided by the Holy Ghost and protected from error. So if Paul 6 and those his successors who have maintained the council since are valid Popes then the doctrine's which Vatican 2 teaches in regards to ecuмenism, religious liberty and the mystical body of Christ are as true as the doctrine's it contradicts. Truth is relative and the Holy Ghost is schizophrenic. Because it sure is not a false Pope that approved a council which contradicts and teaches the opposite of previous infallible doctrine. It's the Holy Ghost's fault, I mean our faults that we do not accept the fact that two contraries can both be true.

All the problems since vatican 2 have nothing to do with a false pope approving it. That's crazy talk. In fact there is no problem. The traditionalists are just too stupid to realize it.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2013, 01:19:12 PM »

Quote from: Mabel

It is how they see it.

It isn't about the mass or rejection of Vatican 2. It is about keeping the Faith. In order to keep the faith passed down to us, those innovations must be rejected but they are not the basis for our end, which is holding fast to our traditions and the Catholic Church that made saints and saved souls. They can't tell me it is the same religion.

The life of a Catholic prior to the 60's:

Born
Day 3, get baptized
Parish catechism with sisters or a priest for 12 years
Receive Catholic education
Mass every Sunday and Holy day
7-8 First Communion
Participate in school and church related activities
Family has at minimum a few statues, prayer books, a Bible in the home
Child graduates from school
Gets married with a nuptial mass
Has 6-10 children
Dies after Extreme Unction and holding the rosary, surrounded by family
Buried in Catholic cemetery, family and parish pray for the soul

Now:
Possible baptism 3-6 months after birth
Public school
Random attendance at CCD, free babysitting service, taught by old lady in polyester pants
Go home after CCD or participate in school sports teams
Novus Ordo when grandma visits or Christmas
First communion at 8-9, if grandma pushes
No Catholic items in home, save an old rosary because it is pretty
Age 14 forced to attend confirmation classes
Confirmed, and graduates from going to church
Graduate public school
Go to college and graduate
Get engaged, get married five years later after living in sin
Contracept for at least one year
Have two children
Divorce
Remarry
Die alone in a nursing home on morphine
Cremated and buried in town cemetery, Novus Ordo priest tells everyone that the person is in heaven

Nice post! :applause: :applause: :applause: