Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries  (Read 2207 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mark 79

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 9789
  • Reputation: +6331/-948
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2024, 12:33:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think the pope needs prayers and pray for him daily. And you?
    Are you dyslexic? Have you understood nothing put before you over the years?

    There is no Pope for whom to pray.

    I pray to have a Pope. 


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6178
    • Reputation: +3150/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #16 on: May 09, 2024, 12:39:57 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Siskel and Ebert, I mean Salza and Siscoe, lumped you in with sedes.  Sedes did not do that and have no intention of doing so.  Maybe you missed that??

    Why should anyone care about what Salza and Sisco think? 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Online Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13861
    • Reputation: +5579/-867
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #17 on: May 09, 2024, 12:42:37 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Are you dyslexic? Have you understood nothing put before you over the years?

    There is no Pope for whom to pray.

    I pray to have a Pope.
    No, I am not dyslexic. I have come to understand over the decades that most sedes here believe and promote their opinion as tho it is a de fide doctrine taught by the Church.

    You do not accept that "there is no pope..." is only your opinion.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13861
    • Reputation: +5579/-867
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #18 on: May 09, 2024, 12:43:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Why should anyone care about what Salza and Sisco think?
    Exactly. What's crazy to me, is that S&S never did the lumping, it was the sede who runs Novus Ordo Watch who did that.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10121
    • Reputation: +5287/-917
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #19 on: May 09, 2024, 01:11:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Why should anyone care about what Salza and Sisco think?
    Meg, S&S is being brought up because of this thread:

    John Salza: It's Trads that are the "Great Apostasy" - page 1 - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)
    Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. (Romans 12:19)


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10121
    • Reputation: +5287/-917
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #20 on: May 09, 2024, 02:07:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Exactly. What's crazy to me, is that S&S never did the lumping, it was the sede who runs Novus Ordo Watch who did that.
    False. Salza is very clear who he is referring to:

    Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. (Romans 12:19)

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6178
    • Reputation: +3150/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #21 on: May 09, 2024, 02:35:32 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Meg, S&S is being brought up because of this thread:

    John Salza: It's Trads that are the "Great Apostasy" - page 1 - Crisis in the Church - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)

    What does that have to do with the subject of the OP, which is infants and limbo?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10121
    • Reputation: +5287/-917
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #22 on: May 09, 2024, 02:43:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What does that have to do with the subject of the OP, which is infants and limbo?
    It doesn't.  Stubborn was the one to bring up the "lumping together" issue in Reply #6 of this thread (which was his issue with the S&S thread I posted).

    Meg, please get caught up first.

    Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. (Romans 12:19)


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6178
    • Reputation: +3150/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #23 on: May 09, 2024, 02:47:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It doesn't.  Stubborn was the one to bring up the "lumping together" issue in Reply #6 of this thread (which was his issue with the S&S thread I posted).

    Meg, please get caught up first.

    The thread had already been derailed by sedes before Stubborn said anything. Not that that's unusual at all. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10121
    • Reputation: +5287/-917
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #24 on: May 09, 2024, 02:57:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So, what would you like to say about the topic of the OP, Meg?
    Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. (Romans 12:19)

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6178
    • Reputation: +3150/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #25 on: May 09, 2024, 03:05:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So, what would you like to say about the topic of the OP, Meg?

    Well, the OP article on the subject of getting rid of limbo seems like something that the modernists who control and occupy the Church would do. If limbo doesn't exist for infants, then it follows that they are saved.

    What is your view of the OP article?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 42142
    • Reputation: +24115/-4346
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #26 on: May 09, 2024, 03:15:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Why should anyone care about what Salza and Sisco think?

    Well, Traditional Catholics shouldn't ... except that I would get into heated debates with Sean Johnson, and he would continue to quote S&S in support of the R&R position, without caring that they were applying the same principles to condemn R&R Catholics as well, thereby invalidating the principles.  But Sean didn't care.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 763
    • Reputation: +513/-94
    • Gender: Male
    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #27 on: May 09, 2024, 04:37:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • The thing is that Limbo as a theological construct is intended as a merciful approach to deceased unbaptised infants and naturally-virtuous, unbaptised adults. To abolish Limbo is not to move these departed souls to heaven, but to consign them to eternal fire in hell.

    At the time of the Jansenist controversy, the Magisterium (I cannot remember which docuмent and have no time now to look it up) declared that no Catholic is obliged to believe in Limbo as it is a theological construct not contained in the Deposit of Faith. However, the docuмent continues, no Catholic may deny the possibility of Limbo.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 42142
    • Reputation: +24115/-4346
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #28 on: May 09, 2024, 07:10:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The thing is that Limbo as a theological construct is intended as a merciful approach to deceased unbaptised infants and naturally-virtuous, unbaptised adults. To abolish Limbo is not to move these departed souls to heaven, but to consign them to eternal fire in hell.

    At the time of the Jansenist controversy, the Magisterium (I cannot remember which docuмent and have no time now to look it up) declared that no Catholic is obliged to believe in Limbo as it is a theological construct not contained in the Deposit of Faith. However, the docuмent continues, no Catholic may deny the possibility of Limbo.

    Yes, the proposition condemned the condemnation of Limbo, asserting that it cannot be declared Pelagianism.  I am very much persuaded of Limbo from the arguments laid out by St. Thomas Aquinas, and I believe that the vast majority of theologians in the past 4 or 5 hundred years have been also, though perhaps their motivation for getting behind Limbo weren't theological, but rather part of the emerging trend to undermine EENS dogma.  It is still permitted to hold the Augustinian opinion, though it has long been the minority opinion.  Cajetan tried to float the notion that unbaptized infants could be saved by some vicarious votum from their parents, but St. Pius V had the opinion stricken from his works (among quite a few others).

    Of course if one applies the Cekadist principles he and many anti-Feeneyites adduce against BoD, since the nearly-uanimous opinion of theologians has been in favor of Limbo for centuries, one would have to conclude that it's now a mortal sin to hold the Augustinian opinion.  Of course, the Augustinian opinion was held unanimously for about 700 years at one point, so then Limbo should have been declared a heretical innovation according to the principles of Cekadism.

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5777
    • Reputation: +4633/-481
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Catholic Church buries limbo after centuries
    « Reply #29 on: May 09, 2024, 09:09:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, you and other sedes - *only* sedes are known for rebuking R&R, because sedes here make their opinions dogma. Then you want us to all be lumped together. :facepalm:
    Are you saying you're not in union with Bergoglio, R&R, and indult?