Author Topic: Catholic breakthrough: Vatican considers welcoming gifts and qualities o  (Read 1650 times)

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Offline procopius

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The Catholic Church, which previously condemned homosexuality as “intrinsically disordered,” is considering embracing homosexual believers, as well as partially accepting same-sex, and other religiously unsanctioned partnerships.

"Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community: are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a further space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a Church that offers them a welcoming home," it said in a “relatio,” a document released at the half-way point of the Synod, a two-week discussion of Catholicism and personal relationships at the Vatican, attended by 200 senior bishops.

"Are our communities capable of proving that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?”

The Synod, which has been attended by Pope Francis, has also recognized the validity of gay relationships, though it stopped far short of equating them to marriage.

"Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners," said the relatio, which is a preliminary discussion draft that will likely form the basis of the final address, to be issued after the closed-door Synod wraps up.

While homosexual desires are not considered inherently sinful by the Vatican, gay sex is. Yet, Pope Francis already signaled a potentially less condemnatory stance last year, famously saying, “Who am I to judge?” when questioned about celibate gay men becoming priests. In a last-minute move, the pontiff personally introduced several of his theological allies into the relatio drafting committee last week.

Pope Francis celebrates a mass to mark the opening of the synod on the family in Saint Peter's Square at the Vatican October 5, 2014 (Reuters / Tony Gentile)

Pope Francis celebrates a mass to mark the opening of the synod on the family in Saint Peter's Square at the Vatican October 5, 2014 (Reuters / Tony Gentile)

QUEST, a long-established gay Catholic group, said the new statements "represent a breakthrough in that they acknowledge that such unions have an intrinsic goodness and constitute a valuable contribution to wider society and the common good."

Meanwhile, David and Jonathan, a gay Christian association in France, said it received the news “with joy.”

"The fact that we are even on the agenda is amazing…” said spokeswoman Elizabeth Saint-Guily.

The Synod has also called for the application of the “law of gradualness,” with unconventional family situations – be it marriages conducted without a church blessing or co-habitation – to be seen in nuanced, not black-and-white terms. Priests are encouraged to nurture "constructive elements in those situations that do not yet or no longer correspond to that ideal," instead of “alienating” believers by telling them they are “living in sin.”

“Each damaged family first of all should be listened to with respect and love, becoming companions on the journey as Christ did with the disciples on the road to Emmaus,” said the relatio, which insisted that the church must “accept the reality” of modern relationships.

The relatio did not shift its fundamental opposition of birth control, but said that if any such methods are practiced, they must take into account the “dignity of the person,” with natural method the preferred way of avoiding conception.

The conclusions of the meeting will be discussed over the next year, before the definitive document of Pope Francis’s era is published after another Synod.


I'm pretty sure the Church has been receiving gifts from Homophiles for quite some time.  Every legitimate child sex abuse case is a gift from that community.

Offline Ladislaus

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Catholic breakthrough: Vatican considers welcoming gifts and qualities o
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2014, 02:30:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: procopius
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    accepting and valuing their sexual orientation


    Heresy (much moreso than the passage that you bolded).



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Catholic breakthrough: Vatican considers welcoming gifts and qualities o
    « Reply #2 on: October 13, 2014, 02:34:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: procopius
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    Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners,


    So, one of the secondary ends of marriage?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2014, 02:38:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: procopius
    The relatio did not shift its fundamental opposition of birth control, but said that if any such methods are practiced, they must take into account the “dignity of the person,” with natural method the preferred way of avoiding conception.


    1) admits that NFP = "way of avoiding conception"

    2) artificial birth control must take into account the dignity of the human person (huh?)

    Now, this part does not appear to be a direct quote, however.


    Offline Jehanne

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    Catholic breakthrough: Vatican considers welcoming gifts and qualities o
    « Reply #4 on: October 13, 2014, 03:50:44 PM »
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  • Pedo-recognition and the "gifts" of "child love" will be next.


    Offline poche

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    « Reply #5 on: October 13, 2014, 10:34:18 PM »
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  • One of the best gifts and quality that anyone can offer is a commitment to the virtue of chastity according to one's state in life.

    Offline BTNYC

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    « Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 05:24:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    One of the best gifts and quality that anyone can offer is a commitment to the virtue of chastity according to one's state in life.


    Which is what you've inferred from this document? Are you joking? Are you using an electron microscope to read between these lines?

    They are not talking about chaste Catholic struggling with temptations to sodomy. As Ladislaus points out, they are asking for Catholics to "value and accept" an "orientation" toward sodomy.

    Stop and consider that for a moment, will you Poche? Try applying that to the other Sins that Cry to Heaven for Vengeance- Can you imagine a synod telling Catholics to "value and accept" inclinations toward oppression of the poor, defrauding a laborer of his wages, or murder? What if they'd said "murderers have gmany ifts and qualities they can bring to the Church?" Would you interpret that to mean "the gifts and qualities they can bring to the church is not murdering people?"

    There is no silver lining in this cloud.

    How do you reconcile this with how Pope St. Pius V dealt with sodomites? How does one call both of these approaches "Catholic" without violating the Law of Non-Contradiction and basic Kindergarten-level common sense?

    And who the hell thumbed up Poche's modernist line toeing? Wasn't Impy banned months ago?
    I heartily apologize to all on this forum whom I have offended by my frequently uncharitable (and, at times, outright abusive) language.

    Please pray for me, a prideful, rash and intemperate sinner.

    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 06:42:57 AM »
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  • I am finding the ways the anti-sedevacantists are spinning the synod, it's authority, and what they are actually saying absolutely incredible.

    When the Vatican holds a synod on the Church's relationship with Islam, there are a lot of people who will condemn sedevacantists when the official word from the Vatican is that there is no God but Allah!


    Offline poche

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    « Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 01:01:40 AM »
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  • Controversy sharpened at the Synod of Bishops, as many prelates have complained that an interim report released on October 13 did not accurately represent the thoughts of the Synod fathers, and the Vatican press office hastened to announce that “a value has been attributed to the document that does not correspond to its nature.”

    The relatio post disceptationem, which was intended to summarize the discussion during the first week of the October synod, “is a working document,” the Vatican observed in an unusual statement released on the day after the document appeared. The press office emphasized that the relatio was designed not to be an authoritative statement, but to be the basis for discussion during the second week of Synod deliberations.

    At a news conference introducing the relatio, reporters were openly skeptical about some of the more controversial passages of the document. When questioned about the statement that homosexuals “have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community,” Archbishop Bruno Forte, who drafted that section, gave an answer that “played to decidedly mixed reviews both inside and outside the Synod hall,” reported John Allen of Crux.

    Cardinal Raymond Burke, who has been consistently outspoken in his defense of Church teaching regarding marriage, charged that the relatio did not accurately reflect the Synod discussions but “in fact, advances positions which many Synod Fathers do not accept and, I would say, as faithful shepherds of the flock cannot accept.” The American cardinal reported that “a great number of the Synod fathers found it objectionable.”

    The official summary of Synod discussions on October 13, released by the Vatican press office, reinforced that point. The summary mentioned that Synod participants had asked for clarification on the suggestion of “gradualism,” greater emphasis on the Church’s teaching regarding sacramental marriage, an acknowledgment of sin, and a strong affirmation of the indissolubility of marriage. Cardinal Burke, in his critique of the document, said that the relatio “lacks a solid foundation in the Sacred Scriptures and the Magisterium.” He too suggested that an authoritative papal statement confirming the essential elements of Catholic teaching on marriage is “long overdue.”

    Archbishop Stanislaw Gadecki, the president of the Polish bishops’ conference, told Vatican Radio that the relatio failed to provide solid support for “good, normal, ordinary families” striving to fulfill the Christian ideal of marriage. “It is not so much what the document says but what it does not say that has been noticed,” the archbishop lamented. “It focuses on exceptions, but what is needed is the proclamation of truth.”

    Many prelates observed that the early release of the relatio had triggered an enormous volume of media coverage, much of it inaccurate, conveying the impression that the Church would change her teachings. (BBC provided a vivid example of this sort of analysis, announcing that Pope Francis had “scored a first quiet victory” in the document and saying that the Pontiff had “convinced many Catholic Church leaders to moderate their formerly strongly critical language about gay unions.”)

    “We’re now working from a position that’s virtually irredeemable,” said South African Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier, referring to the media coverage. “The message has gone out that this is what synod is saying, that this is what the Catholic Church is saying,” he said. “Whatever we say hereafter will seem like we’re doing damage control.”

    With a week still remaining before this session of the Synod concludes, it seems clear that critics of the relatio will organize a strong campaign to ensure that the Synod’s final document is very different from the interim report.

    http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22921

    It appears that someone is trying to sabotage the synod.

    Offline OHCA

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    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 01:28:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    It appears that someone is trying to sabotage the synod.


    Yes--yes--that's it Poche.  Just like Vatican II got sabotaged and we ended up with the elimination of the Mass in "Catholic" Churches; parishioners accepting what they purport to believe to be the Body of Christ in their unconsecrated hands outstretched from gym-wear-clad or titty-bar-wear-clad bodies; "pope" kissing the koran and accepting pagan blessings; everybody goes to Heaven; and "pope" first proclaiming that there is no Catholic God, and later proclaiming that there is no God.

    Yes--it's all sabotage Poche.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    « Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 02:36:01 AM »
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  • Yeah, sabotage...

    Notice only some bishops are issuing clarifications and pointing out that anything they say from here on out will be seen as damage control.

    Bishops.

    Not the Pope.

    Where is frank Francis now with his off the cuff comments? He normally can't keep his piehole closed, but all the sudden he has lost his voice.

    Can we put him on a flight for a few hours so he can talk to the press?

    The bishops let themselves be bamboozled. Like VII they're shocked, just shocked, to walk into this Synod and see a different agenda than they expected and the Masonic forces amongst the participants winning the media war and drowning out and/or marginalizing any bishop who contradicts the party line.


    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 08:20:52 AM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    Quote from: poche
    It appears that someone is trying to sabotage the synod.


    Yes--yes--that's it Poche.  Just like Vatican II got sabotaged and we ended up with the elimination of the Mass in "Catholic" Churches; parishioners accepting what they purport to believe to be the Body of Christ in their unconsecrated hands outstretched from gym-wear-clad or titty-bar-wear-clad bodies; "pope" kissing the koran and accepting pagan blessings; everybody goes to Heaven; and "pope" first proclaiming that there is no Catholic God, and later proclaiming that there is no God.

    Yes--it's all sabotage Poche.


    I agree with poche.  The synod is being sabotaged...by Bergoglio.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #12 on: October 15, 2014, 08:28:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    I am finding the ways the anti-sedevacantists are spinning the synod, it's authority, and what they are actually saying absolutely incredible.


    You sedevacantists really have to find a sane balance.  I'll be the first one to agree with you that the Catholic Church cannot hold an Ecumenical Council whose teachings lead the entire Church into error and that the Church cannot promulgate a positively defective and harmful Rite of Mass.  But to claim that this "Relatio", nothing more than a report or meeting minutes, without any Magisterial force whatsoever, has any bearing on the sedevacantist thesis is just utterly absurd and ludicrous.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #13 on: October 15, 2014, 08:29:37 AM »
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  • It is true, however, that homosexuals have gifts.  Most homosexual men make great hair dressers and have impeccable fashion sense.

    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #14 on: October 15, 2014, 08:39:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: TKGS
    I am finding the ways the anti-sedevacantists are spinning the synod, it's authority, and what they are actually saying absolutely incredible.


    You sedevacantists really have to find a sane balance.  I'll be the first one to agree with you that the Catholic Church cannot hold an Ecumenical Council whose teachings lead the entire Church into error and that the Church cannot promulgate a positively defective and harmful Rite of Mass.  But to claim that this "Relatio", nothing more than a report or meeting minutes, without any Magisterial force whatsoever, has any bearing on the sedevacantist thesis is just utterly absurd and ludicrous.


    Obviously, what has been released so far does not constitute the formal teachings of the Church--or even the Conciliar cult.

    It does, however, reflect what is already being taught by bishops, cardinals, and priests around the world.

    Let us be patient and see what the final document, approved by Bergoglio, says.  That document will constitute the formal teachings of the Conciliar cult.


     

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