Author Topic: Catholic Bishop Calls for Womens Ordination (Read 5062 times)

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2011, 09:01:31 PM »

Spiritus,

Tele is trying to say I'm being disobedient to my bishop. My point is that I'm not because my bishop doesn't command me to do squat. Therefore I am not disobedient. I pointed out that Tele himself "submits" to his bishop even moreso because he assists at a diocesan Mass.

Submitting to your bishop in heretical matters is the Neo-Cath position. My position is to accept the bishop as bishop but disobey any sinful commands he may give me. He never gives me any commands so it is a moot point.

I never said sedes claim themselves to be pope. That is indeed a straw-man. Those would be conclavist anti-popes.

However, in effect, they are not only their own popes but super-popes as they decide for themselves who is and who is not a Catholic priest, bishop, pope. They have no authority whatsoever to do this. Only the Church can judge whether an officer of the Church has lost their office.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2011, 09:11:59 PM »

Ok, gotcha. Sorry for the mis-understanding.

As far as them making decisions they cannot make, I do think that judging the Pope as an anti-pope is a bit extreme (unless the Pope were to commit undeniable heresy or if he was not Catholic). Outside of that, however, we are free to judge people's actions. If a bishop says that women can be priests, I'd label that as a heresy. My real thing is that if a person commits an undeniable heresy, wouldn't that exclude him from the Catholic Church?

LordPhan · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2011, 11:00:14 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Spiritus,

Tele is trying to say I'm being disobedient to my bishop. My point is that I'm not because my bishop doesn't command me to do squat. Therefore I am not disobedient. I pointed out that Tele himself "submits" to his bishop even moreso because he assists at a diocesan Mass.

Submitting to your bishop in heretical matters is the Neo-Cath position. My position is to accept the bishop as bishop but disobey any sinful commands he may give me. He never gives me any commands so it is a moot point.

I never said sedes claim themselves to be pope. That is indeed a straw-man. Those would be conclavist anti-popes.

However, in effect, they are not only their own popes but super-popes as they decide for themselves who is and who is not a Catholic priest, bishop, pope. They have no authority whatsoever to do this. Only the Church can judge whether an officer of the Church has lost their office.

Tele is diocesan?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2011, 11:02:45 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Ok, gotcha. Sorry for the mis-understanding.

As far as them making decisions they cannot make, I do think that judging the Pope as an anti-pope is a bit extreme (unless the Pope were to commit undeniable heresy or if he was not Catholic). Outside of that, however, we are free to judge people's actions. If a bishop says that women can be priests, I'd label that as a heresy. My real thing is that if a person commits an undeniable heresy, wouldn't that exclude him from the Catholic Church?

If a person simply speaks a heresy this doesn't exclude him from the Catholic Church.

LordPhan · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2011, 11:10:56 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Ok, gotcha. Sorry for the mis-understanding.

As far as them making decisions they cannot make, I do think that judging the Pope as an anti-pope is a bit extreme (unless the Pope were to commit undeniable heresy or if he was not Catholic). Outside of that, however, we are free to judge people's actions. If a bishop says that women can be priests, I'd label that as a heresy. My real thing is that if a person commits an undeniable heresy, wouldn't that exclude him from the Catholic Church?

I agree