Author Topic: Catholic Bishop Calls for Womens Ordination (Read 5060 times)

Telesphorus · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:09:47 PM »

It becomes clear Stevus would tolerate any and all liberal heresies before becoming a sede.

It seems the SSPX is on the same road now.

The irony is that Stevus insults someone who claims a Bishop loses his office for manifest heresy, but Stevus does not submit to the conciliar bishops.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:16:55 PM »

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See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12409a.htm

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:59:02 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

It becomes clear Stevus would tolerate any and all liberal heresies before becoming a sede.

It seems the SSPX is on the same road now.

The irony is that Stevus insults someone who claims a Bishop loses his office for manifest heresy, but Stevus does not submit to the conciliar bishops.

So if you don't privately depose bishops at will you are "tolerating" their heresies?

What order of a conciliar bishop with jurisdiction over me am I disobeying?

Do you not submit to your bishop? You assist at Mass at a Conciliar church with a conciliar priest, no?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2011, 05:28:24 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

So if you don't privately depose bishops at will you are "tolerating" their heresies?

Stevus, if you tell people not to follow such a bishop, you are effectively deposing them. Whether or not they remain valid bishops with jurisdiction becomes a matter of theological speculation, as a matter of practical fact you have deposed them. If you believe they are the Church then you are to stand with them. If you do not collaborate with them then you are in effectively denying they are the Church.

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What order of a conciliar bishop with jurisdiction over me am I disobeying?

Who is your bishop? Does he approve of SSPX mass attendance? If he didn't would you obey him or not?

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Do you not submit to your bishop? You assist at Mass at a Conciliar church with a conciliar priest, no?

Going to mass somewhere doesn't mean I submit to the bishop.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2011, 05:46:33 PM »

You are creating a false dichotomy. Recognizing a bishop and theoretically disobeying only sinful commands does not mean you have to deny he is a bishop. It's the old analogy of not obeying an unlawful order in the military. Doesn't mean the officer who gave the unlawful order loses his office when he does so. That is absurd and would lead to anarchy and private judgment as can be seen in the Sede community.

You are submitting to your bishop de facto because you've not done anything in rebellion against anything he's told you to do. You don't agree with your bishop on everything but you don't need to in order to be obedient.

My bishop can say one can't go to Society Masses all day long but he's overruled by the PCED.