Somebody wanna help me out with this?

Some fake traditionalists were quoting St. Pius X against us and make the accusation that we don't accept that he taught that Mohammedans worship the same God as Catholics. I don't remember reading that in the English or Spanish versions.

It is in the Portuguese version of the Catechism of St. Pius X. It's either number 225 or 227.

Anybody have an English version handy?

I have long preferred the interpretation of Mohametanism that sees it as a heresy, or quasi heresy rather than a form of paganism.

I don't have a problem accepting that they worship the true God, albeit in a false way, and I consider Mohametanism to be evil. If I am wrong in my views, I will change my opinion when it is demonstrated that I am wrong.

Somebody wanna help me out with this?

Some fake traditionalists were quoting St. Pius X against us and make the accusation that we don't accept that he taught that Mohammedans worship the same God as Catholics. I don't remember reading that in the English or Spanish versions.

It is in the Portuguese version of the Catechism of St. Pius X. It's either number 225 or 227.

Anybody have an English version handy?

The notion that Pius X would say that the Moslems worship the same God seems to be inconsistent with my sense of history as well.  If the only thing that Pius X said was in terms of infidels, I think the common understanding of Catholic history in this regard is confirmed.

As an approach, do you think it is easier to find out if Pius ever said that the Moslem's do not worship the same God as Catholics? Sometimes when you approach a question backwards it becomes clearer....

Bruce

Yes, that was the line.

In Portuguese it is easily interpreted as "the one true God" which would've been closer to Latin or Italian.

Anyhow, if they worship "one true God" there can only be one True God, which confirms that they worship the same God as us, even though I would argue they don't since they reject the Holy Trinity!


I think Brennus provided the best interpretation that I can make sense out of.

This is what I could find online:

12 Q. Who are infidels?
A. Infidels are those who have not been baptised and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting one true God, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, Mohammedans and the like.

Not sure if this would translate as "worshipping the same God" however.

This does nothing more than to distinguish them from idolaters by virtue of their monotheism.

Here, St. John of Damascus, writing at the outbreak of Mohametanism.

There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist. They are descended from Ishmael, [who] was born to Abraham of Agar, and for this reason they are called both Agarenes and Ishmaelites. They are also called Saracens, which is derived from Sarras kenoi, or destitute of Sara, because of what Agar said to the angel: ‘Sara hath sent me away destitute.’ [99] These used to be idolaters and worshiped the morning star and Aphrodite, whom in their own language they called Khabár, which means great. [100] And so down to the time of Heraclius they were very great idolaters. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, [101] devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration.

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Brennus

I have long preferred the interpretation of Mohametanism that sees it as a heresy, or quasi heresy rather than a form of paganism.

You're kidding, right?

This very passage categorizes them (correctly) as infidels.

No. I'm serious, but I'm probably not using the terms as precisely as you are.  Mohametanism seems to me to be in that limbo between heresy and paganism, the same place we find a lot of Gnosticism, not to mention Manicheanism and Mormonism.  Sometimes the phenomenon in question functions like a heresy and sometimes more like paganism.

Belloc thought this way about it and medieval thinkers saw Mohametanism as a heresy.  (I'll try to find out who, because I forget at the moment) so it isn't modern novelty.
 
As I said, it's not an idea I'm married to though.  It is probably better to say QUASI heresy.  

Without belief in the essential mysteries of the Faith, the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, one cannot be a heretic, but only an infidel.

Here, St. John of Damascus, writing at the outbreak of Mohametanism.

There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist. They are descended from Ishmael, [who] was born to Abraham of Agar, and for this reason they are called both Agarenes and Ishmaelites. They are also called Saracens, which is derived from Sarras kenoi, or destitute of Sara, because of what Agar said to the angel: ‘Sara hath sent me away destitute.’ [99] These used to be idolaters and worshiped the morning star and Aphrodite, whom in their own language they called Khabár, which means great. [100] And so down to the time of Heraclius they were very great idolaters. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, [101] devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration.

Something St. John of Damascus left out in this excerpt above, is the fact that Mohammed was illiterate, and therefore wrote nothing.  This "book" to which St. John refers, is the oral utterances that Mohammed spoke to his listeners.  Over time, by his effective con-man tactics, he delivered to his followers (some of whom could write) a kind of stream of consciousness that had the effect of drawing together several erstwhile warring factions of pagans in the region.  He thereby brought a kind of "peace" to their land that had not existed before.  Instead of fighting each other, they would then join forces to go out and chop off the heads of Christians, for example.

Therefore, what had begun as scattered remnants of mere pagans was co-joined together rather like Frankenstein's monster, into a monotheist infidelity that might be seen as a "cut above" mere paganism.  

Not only was Mohammed illiterate, but he was a polygamist, a pederast, a murderer and a blasphemer.  Nonetheless, he is revered as somehow 'virtuous' by his ideological progeny.  And the Freemasonic principle of egalitarianism (which spills over into the heresy of Americanism BTW) would have natural virtues on par with supernatural virtues.  But that's another story for another time.

Furthermore, we have it by the most compelling testimony of Brigitte Gabriel, that the Arab Christians use the word "Allah" in their worship of the Blessed Trinity, because that is the word in the Arabic language for "God."  This rather compels me to say, that the use of the vernacular at Mass is the beginning of problems for EVERYONE, and that perhaps they ought to stick to Greek, Latin or even (ancient) ARMENIAN, for crying out loud.

Finally, in this fascinating term, "Ishmaelites," we find the Mohammetan principle of the origins of their race (for it really is a race) and the lie upon which their false religion is founded.  Go and ask any Moslem (not 'muslim') what was Abraham's son's name whom Abraham took to the altar to sacrifice?  He will tell you, "ISHMAEL!"  

So you see, they have a whole culture and foundation built on lies from the beginning, just as their father the devil, who is a liar from the beginning.

A priest told me that he knows an exorcist who demanded the name of the devil possessing a person, during exorcism, and the demon had said, "My name is Allah."  Some time later, this priest tested out the power he had established as the exorcist over this same demon, trying it on a vast crowd of people in Arabia, and everyone in the crowd proved to him the truth of this demon's name: Allah is a devil.  

Mohammetans are world-renown to revere the words,

They weave it into textiles and paint it on their walls and print it in their ribbons that they sell to Christians and Jєωs at a profit.  Now, they're doing it to the American paper money!

You might find stamped on one dollar bills the under the words, "IN GOD WE TRUST" these words: "NO GOD BUT ALLAH" -- to which you might add,


.