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Author Topic: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight  (Read 616 times)

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Offline Ascetik

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Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
« on: January 14, 2022, 09:46:23 PM »
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  • Wanted to start a separate thread as not to derail the other one on the pope being gαy, lol.

    So in response to Prayerful's distaste for CM, I understand, but their spotlight on the Monks in Wyoming is true. I added some more details to my response:

    As much as I dislike CM, I watched their spotlight on the Carmelite Monks in Wyoming. As a former monk from there, I can tell you literally everything Augustine Infererra said in that interview was 100% accurate. I joined them in 2006 and left within a month because the amount of manual labor was absurd. He is not exaggerating, it felt like forced labor. We hardly had any time to pray at all, which is entirely against the spirit and charism of Carmel. Realize I am telling you this 14 years before he joined I was there and it was happening. He joined in 2020, I joined in 2006.

    For further clarification I was an aspirant for a year and a half. I visited 3 times before I joined, and this was at their temp monastery in Powell, WY before they bought the new property. None of these criticisms came to light until I walked through the cloister gate because aspirants do silent retreats there and do not participate in anything except the mass.

    Everything in that spotlight is true, except when they talk about the skull and flagellation not being Carmelite traditions, they are. That is the only false thing in the whole Spotlight.

    It's the first thing I've watched from CM in probably 6 or 7 years because I dislike them that much. But they did a good job on the Carmelite Monks and I felt somewhat vindicated because I left for the same reasons as him.

    I know at least 3 other former monks from there who all said the same thing and left for the same reasons. Excessive labor. Weirdness. Lack of prayer. Immoderate affection and lack of modesty amongst other huge red flags.

    Another interesting thing, Fr. Daniel Mary told me they were diocesan rite, apparently that's not true. So he lied to me. Interesting how that comes out 16 years later and I learn it from CM.

    I remember Fr. Daniel Mary's overemphasis on being buff, they bring this up in the spotlight. Fr. Daniel Mary wanted me to lift everyday before he would admit me. Which I did. FOR A YEAR. He talked about it a lot. Granted a was rather skinny at the time, so he was concerned I wouldn't be able to keep up. Still though, odd thing to ask of an aspirant. Most real monks are super thin anyway cause of all their fasting.

    Feel free anyone to DM me, I'm not lying. Fr. Daniel Mary even mentioned me in passing during an EWTN interview about 12-14 years back. I think it was Fr. Pacwa's show. He talks about the monk that broke down. That was me.

    They are not who they claim to be.

    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #1 on: January 14, 2022, 10:18:51 PM »
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  • Link to the spotlight: https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/spotlight-counterfeit-carmel


    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #2 on: January 14, 2022, 10:21:51 PM »
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  • Wanted to add one more thing. You have to realize the scope of work these monks are trying to undertake on their own without hiring labor, to the detriment of their charism, religious life and souls.

    They run a coffee/tea/sweets/accessories business.

    They run a cattle ranch.

    They maintain a 43 acres property.

    They are trying to build the monastery entirely themselves.

    Cleaning. Cooking. Ordering stuff, admin duties, repairs, etc.

    All this work for 20 or so monks, and people wonder why monks leave. They're OVERWORKED. 

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #3 on: January 14, 2022, 10:31:49 PM »
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  • So how many hours a day of work?  Just curious.  
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #4 on: January 14, 2022, 10:43:22 PM »
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  • So how many hours a day of work?  Just curious. 

    For me it was 10 to 14, dependent on the day, except on Sundays. But this was hard manual labor, not just sitting on a computer inputting data or something. But I was there when there was less work to do, now they have 2 businesses and building a huge monastery on top of everything else, with only 12 more guys. So it's probably worse now.

    There was no time for mental prayer really except for 10mins post-mass thanksgiving. That is a strict Carmelite requirement that you are to pray at least 2 hours of mental prayer, this wasn't happening at all and no time was given for it.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #5 on: January 14, 2022, 11:36:15 PM »
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  • 10-14 , 6 (or with cattle 7). days a week is normal for farmers (ranchers). 

    I would be more concerned with the creepy stuff.
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #6 on: January 15, 2022, 12:44:36 AM »
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  • For me it was 10 to 14, dependent on the day, except on Sundays. But this was hard manual labor, not just sitting on a computer inputting data or something. But I was there when there was less work to do, now they have 2 businesses and building a huge monastery on top of everything else, with only 12 more guys. So it's probably worse now.

    There was no time for mental prayer really except for 10mins post-mass thanksgiving. That is a strict Carmelite requirement that you are to pray at least 2 hours of mental prayer, this wasn't happening at all and no time was given for it.

    Thank you for sharing your story, Ascetik.

    It's a big deal, IMO, that there wasn't time there for the two hours of mental prayer, which is a Carmelite requirement. It sounds like they were more concerned with worldly matters, and neglected spiritual matters.

    Since they are diocesan, could it be that the superior there didn't have proper understanding of the Carmelite order? Since Vatican ll, it can be quite difficult for folks associated with a diocese to have a proper disposition for the religious life (I'm speaking of the superior, or whomever started the monastery). That's not always the case, but often is these days. 
    "Our society is so abnormal that the normal man never dreams of having the normal occupation of looking after one's own property. When he chooses a trade, he chooses one of the ten thousand trades that involve looking after other people's property."

    ~ G.K. Chesterton, Commonwealth, Oct. 12, 1932.

    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #7 on: January 15, 2022, 08:32:12 AM »
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  • They do the Carmelite Rite of 1938, fully. The prior Fr. Daniel Mary was formed at a NO seminary and used to be part of a NO Carmelite community. I remember during my aspirancy him asking me to read all the docuмents of Vatican II, and I was like "ok". But never did obviously cause I already knew what was in them. 

    I think he's well intentioned but misses the mark with regards to being stricter about the charism and rule. Not everything about them is bad or evil, they're better than most NO orders but not living strictly by the Carmelite tradition bothered me a lot.

    I don't really agree with Augustine Infererra going to CM and venting like that, it doesn't really help, but I also won't pretend that they are as strict with their spiritual life as they make it out to be with aspirants and on their website. It was scandalous at times.


    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #8 on: January 15, 2022, 09:39:00 AM »
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  • 10-14 , 6 (or with cattle 7). days a week is normal for farmers (ranchers).

    I would be more concerned with the creepy stuff.
    I understand, but they're Carmelite contemplatives (supposedly), not secular lay people ranching.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Carmelite Monks of Wyoming RE: CM Spotlight
    « Reply #9 on: January 15, 2022, 11:49:36 AM »
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  • Novus Ordo religion, no surprise to me. The only surprise is that they are not flamers. The 14 hours of work doing construction and business enterprises is a profit deal.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24