Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Cardinal collapses at Vatican II  (Read 3884 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Alex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1407
  • Reputation: +265/-4
  • Gender: Female
Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
« on: May 17, 2008, 03:12:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0


  • Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31179
    • Reputation: +27094/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #1 on: May 17, 2008, 08:00:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Wow! Thanks for the informative post, Alex.

    I know that there were many good bishops at Vatican II (they formed a group called the "International Group of Fathers" of which Archbishop Lefebvre had a leading role)

    From Wikipedia (on Archbishop Lefebvre):

    Lefebvre took a leading part in a study group of bishops at the Council which became known as the Coetus Internationalis Patrum (International Group of Fathers).[67]

    A major area of concern at the Council was the debate about the principle of religious liberty.[68] During the Council's third session (September to November 1964)[69] Archbishop Pericle Felici announced that Lefebvre, with two other like-minded bishops, was appointed to a special four-member commission charged with rewriting the draft docuмent on the topic,[70] but it was soon discovered that this measure did not have papal approval, and major responsibility for preparing the draft docuмent was given to the Secretariat for Promoting Christian Unity.[71] Instead of the draft entitled "On Religious Liberty", Lefebvre and Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani had supported instead a text dealing with "Relations between the Church and State, and religious tolerance."[72] The Coetus Internationalis Patrum did, however, manage to get the preliminary vote (with suggestions for modifications) on the docuмent put off until the fourth session of the Council, but were unable to prevent the adoption, on 7 December 1965, of the final text of the declaration Dignitatis humanae by the overwhelming majority of the Council.[73] The expressed view of some that this overwhelming majority was only due to intense lobbying by the reformist wing of Council Fathers among those prelates who initially had reservations or even objections[74] is not accepted by all observers however. Lefebvre was one of those who voted against the declaration, but he was one of those who added their signature to the docuмent, after that of the Pope, though not all present did sign.[75] Lefebvre later declared that the sheet of paper that he signed and that was "passed from hand to hand among the Fathers of the Council and upon which everyone placed his signature, had no meaning of a vote for or against, but signified simply our presence at the meeting to vote for four docuмents."[76] However, the paper on which his signature appears, and which was not "the relatively unimportant attendance sheet which Lefebvre recalled in his interview", bears "the title Declaratio de Libertate Religiosa (along with the titles of three other docuмents) at the top," and "(t)he fathers were informed that if they wished to sign one or more docuмents, but not all of them, they could make a marginal annotation beside their name, specifying which docuмents they did or did not wish to sign. No such annotation is found beside the names of either Lefebvre or de Castro Mayer, which proves that they were prepared to share in the official promulgation of that Declaration on Religious Liberty which they later publicly rejected."[77]
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 05:46:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Bump

    Offline Ursus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 317
    • Reputation: +137/-2
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 05:48:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Bump a 5 1/2 year old post? What's up?

    Offline crossbro

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1434
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 05:58:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Thanks for bumping this, I was born in LA in 1967. It is nice to know I had a wonderful bishop.


    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3849/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 06:02:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This reminds me of a story I heard about a saint who was a Bishop during the First Vatican Council. I forget his name, but the story goes that he heard so many heresies spreading during the First Vatican Council that he had a stroke. Not Vatican II, but Vatican I.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 06:52:06 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Ursus
    Bump a 5 1/2 year old post? What's up?

    There's a lot of good old posts on this site... that and I'm tired of reading about BOD  :smirk:

    Quote from: crossbro

    Thanks for bumping this, I was born in LA in 1967. It is nice to know I had a wonderful bishop.

    No problem ! I live in LA now. (suburbs, of course)

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 06:53:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matto
    This reminds me of a story I heard about a saint who was a Bishop during the First Vatican Council. I forget his name, but the story goes that he heard so many heresies spreading during the First Vatican Council that he had a stroke. Not Vatican II, but Vatican I.


    Curious- wonder if it was the Old Catholics?


    Offline Memento

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 269
    • Reputation: +135/-0
    • Gender: Female
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 08:52:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matto
    This reminds me of a story I heard about a saint who was a Bishop during the First Vatican Council. I forget his name, but the story goes that he heard so many heresies spreading during the First Vatican Council that he had a stroke. Not Vatican II, but Vatican I.


    St. Anthony Mary Claret

    Quote
    In his last days, he participated in Vatican Council I, which the Pope had convened at the Vatican in December of 1869. Seeing many liberal Bishops opposing the matter of Papal Infallibility that was being discussed, he became indignant and strongly censured them in a speech. Hearing the errors being spoken on this topic, he was so overcome with indignation that the blood rushed to his head and he suffered a stroke from which he never recovered. He died some months later.


    from  Tradition in Action - Saint of the Day Oct. 24


    S2srea - greetings Sir! Great idea .  

    Offline s2srea

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5106
    • Reputation: +3896/-48
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 10:02:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you memento! :)

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10512
    • Reputation: +3267/-207
    • Gender: Male
    • I will not respond to any posts from Poche.
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 11:38:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I attended the Funeral Mass for Cardinal McIntyre. The Funeral Mass
    in the new rite was held in a very modernistic Catholic Church on
    Wilshire Blvd, in Los Angeles. I forgot the name of the Church and
    never been back.  The Church had a very modernistic statue of the
    Blessed Virgin Mary at the front of the church.
    I remember in exiting the church, Mayor Tom Bradley was shaking
    everybody hands including me.
    I just wanted to be civil.


    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7610
    • Reputation: +617/-404
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #11 on: January 15, 2014, 12:46:24 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • edit :reading:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Joe

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 49
    • Reputation: +17/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, 08:47:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Maybe the other Cardinals should've taken more heed of his demise...
    Club sandwiches not seals.

    Failure is always an option.  Just not always the best option.

    Offline vonGalen

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 5
    • Reputation: +14/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 09:17:10 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Alex
    Below is a photograph of Cardinal MacIntyre who got sick during the Vatican II Council and is carried out right in front of the pope and 25 cardinals. I don't know exactly what happened to him but I wouldn't be surprised if he colapsed from the stress of witnessing the Mass and Catholic tradition being destroyed.

    Cardinal McIntyre, Archbishop of Los Angeles from 1948–1978, was staunchly conservative. He once expressed caution towards "an obvious trend toward laxity" in the morality of films[, and accused Bishop James Shannon's liberal views as constituting "incipient schism". He was one of the few American bishops to oppose the liturgical revolution of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965)[4]. McIntyre, like his colleague in New York, Francis Cardinal Spellman, refused to implement these conciliar liturgical innovations. On October 23, 1962, McIntyre addressed the Council fathers:

    "The schema on the Liturgy proposes confusion and complication. If it is adopted, it would be an immediate scandal for our people. The continuity of the Mass must be kept. The tradition of the sacred ceremonies must be preserved..."



    The Cardinal on the left, looking on, is Joseph Card. Frings, Archbishop of Cologne,
    who seconded the subversion of the progressists at this infamous council.
    However, shortly before his death he had serious doubts about his involvement at the council.
    nec laudibus nec timore

    Offline Joe

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 49
    • Reputation: +17/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Cardinal collapses at Vatican II
    « Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 09:29:00 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: vonGalen
    Quote from: Alex
    Below is a photograph of Cardinal MacIntyre who got sick during the Vatican II Council and is carried out right in front of the pope and 25 cardinals. I don't know exactly what happened to him but I wouldn't be surprised if he colapsed from the stress of witnessing the Mass and Catholic tradition being destroyed.

    Cardinal McIntyre, Archbishop of Los Angeles from 1948–1978, was staunchly conservative. He once expressed caution towards "an obvious trend toward laxity" in the morality of films[, and accused Bishop James Shannon's liberal views as constituting "incipient schism". He was one of the few American bishops to oppose the liturgical revolution of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965)[4]. McIntyre, like his colleague in New York, Francis Cardinal Spellman, refused to implement these conciliar liturgical innovations. On October 23, 1962, McIntyre addressed the Council fathers:

    "The schema on the Liturgy proposes confusion and complication. If it is adopted, it would be an immediate scandal for our people. The continuity of the Mass must be kept. The tradition of the sacred ceremonies must be preserved..."



    The Cardinal on the left, looking on, is Joseph Card. Frings, Archbishop of Cologne,
    who seconded the subversion of the progressists at this infamous council.
    However, shortly before his death he had serious doubts about his involvement at the council.


    It seems that many people have doubts about their actioins on earth on their deathbed.  The inventor of the AK-47, one of the most widely produced assault rifles on the planet, wrote a letter to the Vatican expressing sorrow for his invention on his deathbed.
    Club sandwiches not seals.

    Failure is always an option.  Just not always the best option.