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Offline theresao1965

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Excommunication of a Bishop
« on: June 03, 2017, 02:27:30 PM »
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    • Recent question has come to me, for which I do not have an answer. Hopefully, someone can help. Back in the late 1950s when Pope Pius XII, an American Bishop, who is now deceased, was said to be excommunicated by Pope Pius XII. Under what circuмstances this sanction was given, I am not in the know. I was told in order to obtain that information in that matter, supposedly, a valid Cardinal, of which there are few if any, would need to gain access to the records for access. Since this alleged sanction, this excommunicated bishop, went on to ordain, consecrate, and publicly provide sacraments to the general public in the United States, until his passing nearly 20 years ago. Do the sacraments dispensed after this alleged 'excommunication' remain valid, or are they null and void?  
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    "Listen, put it into your heart, my youngest and dearest son, that the thing that disturbs you, the thing that afflicts you, is nothing. Do not let your countenance, your heart be disturbed. Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you not under my shado

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #1 on: June 03, 2017, 04:30:39 PM »
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    • Sacraments, in general, would be valid but illicit.  The only sacrament which might not be valid would be Penance.

    However, there is no such thing as a secret excommunication.  If a person who tells you this cannot provide a specific name, the individual is "blowing smoke", that is, he's stubbornly talking about something he knows nothing about and he should be ignored.
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    Offline theresao1965

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 05:25:02 PM »
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    • TKGS, the name of this Bishop was given, however, I felt imprudent at naming him specifically. If anyone feels it would help in the dialogue, I would be willing to disclose since He could be known to some.  I certainly would not want to place this holy man's name put up for defamation and that would certainly not be my intent in presenting his name.
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    "Listen, put it into your heart, my youngest and dearest son, that the thing that disturbs you, the thing that afflicts you, is nothing. Do not let your countenance, your heart be disturbed. Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you not under my shado

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #3 on: June 03, 2017, 10:26:58 PM »
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    • Yes, please tell us who he is. I cannot find anything on a web search for "American Bishop excommunicated by Pope Pius XII".
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    Offline theresao1965

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 07:14:19 AM »
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    • His name is Bishop George Musey, who resided and spiritually assisted many people in a Spiritual capacity in varied towns through out Texas.  He passed away in the 1990s.  In the mid to late 1980s he, in spite of very poor health, aided Mt St Michaels here in Spokane, ordaining a few of their priests, until they ousted him out a few years later. The accusers are disgruntled and quite resentful former MSM parishioners. As with this particular accusation, I take what they say with less than a grain of salt, consider their embetterment.  This seems to be quite a serious accusaton that I felt it was necessary to at least confirm its lack of credibility. Disclaimer: Mentioning his name is done with intent of information, not for any defamation of the dear Bishop any kind.
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    "Listen, put it into your heart, my youngest and dearest son, that the thing that disturbs you, the thing that afflicts you, is nothing. Do not let your countenance, your heart be disturbed. Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you not under my shado

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 08:12:30 AM »
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    • Musey wasn't even a bishop until about 30 years after Pius XII died. 
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline theresao1965

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #6 on: June 04, 2017, 08:27:03 AM »
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    • Yes, this is true that his episcopal consecration came after Pope Pius XII's death. The assertion by those who are making the accusations rests with the fact that he was not able to act as a priest, because of his excommunication for his misdeeds as a priest. Ultimately, his consecration to the status of Bishop and anything he did after his suspension from the church is negated because of the misdeeds and the claimed consequence of Pope Pius XII claimed excommunication of then Fr. George Musey. Essentially, in other words, the claim is the man we call Bishop George Musey is merely a suspended priest, not a valid bishop in any fashion and anything done since the date of his excommunication is of no value--invalid and illicit, including ordinations, consecrations etc.  Any docuмents to support it, are claimed to be at the Vatican, and only can be obtained by clerics of high ranking that do not exist at the moment.
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    "Listen, put it into your heart, my youngest and dearest son, that the thing that disturbs you, the thing that afflicts you, is nothing. Do not let your countenance, your heart be disturbed. Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you not under my shado

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #7 on: June 04, 2017, 11:40:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: theresao1965 on June 04, 2017, 08:27:03 AM
    Yes, this is true that his episcopal consecration came after Pope Pius XII's death. The assertion by those who are making the accusations rests with the fact that he was not able to act as a priest, because of his excommunication for his misdeeds as a priest. Ultimately, his consecration to the status of Bishop and anything he did after his suspension from the church is negated because of the misdeeds and the claimed consequence of Pope Pius XII claimed excommunication of then Fr. George Musey. Essentially, in other words, the claim is the man we call Bishop George Musey is merely a suspended priest, not a valid bishop in any fashion and anything done since the date of his excommunication is of no value--invalid and illicit, including ordinations, consecrations etc.  Any docuмents to support it, are claimed to be at the Vatican, and only can be obtained by clerics of high ranking that do not exist at the moment.
    Obviously, the Vatican believes that "clerics of high rank" exist, so this statement is, on its face, absurd.  When people make a positive claim, it is up to those making the claim to substantiate the claim.  I've heard of this man before and have never seen or heard of any actual evidence of the detractions against him.  In any event, even if Fr. Musey was suspended, the subsequent actions, i.e., his consecration and his ordinations, would not be invalid.  The only reason I've ever seen to bring up these issues have been to calumniate and call into question the validity of CMRI priests.

    By the way, the Catholic Church (long before Vatican 2) has always recognized the validity of the orders of the excommunicated Orthodox, thus, the claim that Bishop Musey's consecration for the "reasons" given is invalid is also absurd.
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    Offline theresao1965

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    Re: Excommunication of a Bishop
    « Reply #8 on: June 04, 2017, 12:54:03 PM »
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    • This is their mission indeed--to discredit at all cost the CMRI priests.  Please pray for these people as well as my younger brother and thier conversion back to the true church; they are heavily involved in this particular mission.  Thank you and God Bless you all who have helped me shed some extra perspective on this.
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    "Listen, put it into your heart, my youngest and dearest son, that the thing that disturbs you, the thing that afflicts you, is nothing. Do not let your countenance, your heart be disturbed. Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you not under my shado
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