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Author Topic: Opus Dei: Good? Bad? Why?  (Read 3178 times)

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Offline PG

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Re: Opus Dei: Good? Bad? Why?
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2017, 02:58:55 PM »
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  • Nadir - thanks for that link to a personal testimony by a former member.  That was worth reading.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Opus Dei: Good? Bad? Why?
    « Reply #31 on: May 31, 2017, 11:31:15 PM »
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  • Has your question been answered, Laramie?


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Opus Dei: Good? Bad? Why?
    « Reply #32 on: June 01, 2017, 04:48:45 AM »
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  • Has your question been answered, Laramie?
    Yes.  It's a good thread.  I appreciate the various links especially.  Thanks.  

    Yes, it appears that Opus Dei is a materialized power structure for the Novus Ordo mindset.  In my opinion, this is why Opus Dei is bad.  Not because it is an organization that is secret, and not because Opus Dei is pseudo-secret about itself.  

    I do not think that a Catholic organization is bad simply because it is gaining power.  I don't think a Catholic organization is bad if it is secret.  I do not think a Catholic organization is bad if it is gaining influence and power.  Why?  Basically, if we EVER want to see Catholics gain some kind of a foothold in the world, then we are going to need money and power.  Just like the Medieval Age.  

    For example, let us suppose you want to see America transform into a Catholic monarchical confessional state.  You are going to need to have a structure.  A network.  A group with power.  Furthermore, if this group is to have power, they are going to need money.  

    I said in a recent post on my blog: "Catholics, these days, now have an aversion to material things.  Again, we are not living at the height of the Middle Ages.  One glance at the spartan designs of post Vatican II parishes will tell that story.  For more than a generation, there has been utter contempt for the materialistic and "triumphalist" development of the Catholic Church."

    http://thehirschfiles.blogspot.com/2017/05/why-catholics-dont-tithe-as-much-as.html

    A powerbase of Catholic strength facing off against the crappy bi-factional ruling party of this failed nation would give me great hope.  I would love to see some sort of a Catholic Party in this country.  

    That being said, such a Catholic organization(s) would need to not be a Novus Ordo wreck.  This catty, modernist, Voris-style "beige liberalism" Catholic nonsense will NOT DO.  Nor will anything as dishonest as the coercive nature of this Opus Dei organization.  Reading the testimonials of this thing, I can see that its existence is dubious.  I could be wrong, but at this point, red flags come up for me after reading what you all have linked to.  

    I don't think a lot of Catholics put their money into various parishes and Catholic organizations because they expect their money to be squandered.  But if there were some sort of organization of Catholics whose sole intention was to accumulate strength and power--UNCOMPROMISINGLY--I think that would give a lot of hope to Catholics, renew their spirits, and inspire them to contribute to the effort.  ...the war effort.  Because  this is cultural war.  

    North America was Catholic first.  This period of Hebraic Puritanism on this continent can end if we just ride out to meet it.  

    My Catolica America series is all about justifying, laying out, discussing, and enforcing the idea of a solid, tangible gain for Catholics in this region.  


    But as for Opus Dei, I am surprised people dislike it on the basis that it is a secret organization that gains wealth.  There is a time and place when wealth is necessary.  
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    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Opus Dei: Good? Bad? Why?
    « Reply #33 on: June 01, 2017, 05:15:30 AM »
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  • wow.  so much redundancy in that last post.  It's 5am.  I'm tired.  Apparently repeating myself.
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    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline White Wolf

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    Secrecy is always bad, except in the confessional...
    « Reply #34 on: June 03, 2017, 05:28:48 AM »
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  • Interesting quote:
    "In my opinion, this is why Opus Dei is bad.  Not because it is an organization that is secret, and not because Opus Dei is pseudo-secret about itself. "
    Secrecy always gives rise to speculation, rumors, gossip, hearsay, etc.  I knew the SSPX was on its way down when Bishop Fellay started doing "negotiations" in secret.  The truth never operates in secret.  Our Lord told the Jews: " I have spoken openly to the world: I have always taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither all the Jews resort; and in secret I have spoken nothing."
    If only "Catholic" organizations would have such a policy.
    The same problem exists within the Knights of Columbus.  All these secrets is just immaturity masquerading as sophistication.  I just wish these people would grow up.
    Our Lady of Fatima Pray for us you are our only hope!


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Secrecy is always bad, except in the confessional...
    « Reply #35 on: June 03, 2017, 05:48:04 AM »
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  • Interesting quote:
    "In my opinion, this is why Opus Dei is bad.  Not because it is an organization that is secret, and not because Opus Dei is pseudo-secret about itself. "
    Secrecy always gives rise to speculation, rumors, gossip, hearsay, etc.  I knew the SSPX was on its way down when Bishop Fellay started doing "negotiations" in secret.  The truth never operates in secret.  Our Lord told the Jews: " I have spoken openly to the world: I have always taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither all the Jews resort; and in secret I have spoken nothing."
    If only "Catholic" organizations would have such a policy.
    The same problem exists within the Knights of Columbus.  All these secrets is just immaturity masquerading as sophistication.  I just wish these people would grow up.
    Wrong.
    The Hebrews had to keep political and military secrets throughout Scriptures.  Esther kept a secret when she hid her nationality, enabling her to save her people.  "A man of understanding holds his tongue," according to Proverbs.  God keeps secrets from us.  Christ asked His disciples to keep some miracles secret.  The priest keeps our secrets in the confessional.
    An organization that keeps no confidence, is always an open book to everyone, and wears its intentions on its sleeve is destined for destruction.  
    The Maryland colony's Catholics failed to keep private and have a vetting process for Protestants, leading to the Catholic sanctuary's demise.  Same goes for Dr. John McLoughlin's mistakes when he lost Oregon Country to Protestant American settlers--losing a potential Catholic power base in the Northwest.   
    Even our Holy Mother asked three children to keep secrets at Fatima.  
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    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Opus Dei: Good? Bad? Why?
    « Reply #36 on: June 03, 2017, 07:31:31 AM »
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  • There is nothing evil per se in secrecy. It is like a knife or a gun - which can used for good purpose or for evil. It all depends on what you do with it, and for what purpose you use it.
    .

    Openness is the way to win friends. Secrecy, as WW says, gives rise to speculation, rumors, gossip, hearsay, etc, but not always
    .

    We know why the early Christians secreted themselves in catacombs etc. For them it was a matter of life and death. It was never so they could climb in society and make lots of money and gain power. That is not the sort of things genuine folk do, if they are disciples of Jesus, who had nowhere to lay His head. It is not the way to conquer nations for Christ. 

    .
    There were, of course, rich Christians in those early days, who provided their homes converting them to Churches. Neither is there evil in riches, provided  they are used responsibly and generously for the Kingdom.

    .

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Opus Dei: Good? Bad? Why?
    « Reply #37 on: June 03, 2017, 08:09:07 AM »
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  • ...Christians secreted themselves in catacombs etc. For them it was a matter of life and death. It was never so they could climb in society and make lots of money and gain power. That is not the sort of things genuine folk do, if they are disciples of Jesus, who had nowhere to lay His head. It is not the way to conquer nations for Christ....
    .
    It's an excellent way to conquer nations for Christ.  In fact, there are many different ways to conquer nations for Christ.  Secretly mobilizing resources is a battle tactic in war.  And it's far "kinder" than slaughtering men, women, and children in order to conquer, as is done by the Hebrews in the Old Testament.  

    Being a gullible organization that tries to make friends with everyone, being discreet about nothing (Bishop Fellay, anyone?), will only lead to being metaphorically "shot in the back of the head" by the "moderates" who eventually betray you.  You will not win a long-term cultural war by constantly playing defense.  Catholics will forever be the loser in the social spaces.  And accepting that fate in politics and society, rather than work towards a constructive new paradigm that is Catholic, is a shitty thing to do to one's children and descendants.

    Even the saint kings had wealth and power.  And I highly doubt they wore every thought on their sleeve when it came to their policies.  

    Should there ever be an effort among Catholics to attempt to retake control of the West in pieces or in whole, a great mobilization will have to occur, and not all of the operations should be revealed to our enemies.  Attaining money and power for the sake of money and power is, of course, wrong.  The cause should be to restore Christendom--and not as the modernists see it.  

    But a Traditional Catholic political organization or movement being gleefully open about its every maneuver will ensure that Catholics have a boot on their neck until the Chastisement, and guarantees that Christendom will have no chance of blooming until God Himself kills off all the baddies for us.  

    Sitting around and waiting for the Catholic Rapture isn't, exactly, something we should be doing.  We should be working to win over people in our personal lives, but also politically and socially.  The latter requires strength.  Strength of resources, but also the strength of will...which most Catholics lack.  
     
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    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


     

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