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Author Topic: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.  (Read 5631 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2019, 02:59:26 PM »
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  • That doesn't mean they are perfect, but they are certainly Catholic.
     “Further, by divine and Catholic faith, all those things must be believed at which are contained in the written Word of God and in tradition, and those which are proposed by the church, either in a solemn pronouncement [ex cathedra extra ordinary Magisterium ], or in her ordinary and universal teaching power [a.v.,  “what has always been taught,” ordinary Magisterium ], to be believed as a divinely revealed.”  Vatican Council, Session III Dogmatic Constitution Concerning the Catholic Faith (April 24, 1870) in Denzinger, Enchiridion Symbolorum, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, §1792

    What part of "all" don't you understand?

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #61 on: September 14, 2019, 03:08:08 PM »
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  • …The SSPX is now a wimpy version of its former self.
    You might say the SSPX is societas vacans.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #62 on: September 14, 2019, 03:13:23 PM »
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  • Rubbish. There you go again with your non-existent charism of reading hearts, minds, and souls to create yet another straw man.

    Quote any sedevacantist who has said, "the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope."

    Precisely because we do have hope, every sedevacantist I know prays for the conciliar sect, just not with the conciliar sect.

    Your thinking is sloppy, if indeed you think at all.
    Mark,
    You have to understand that Megs thinking is affected by her rabid anti sedevacantism. Once you do, her posts make more sense.
    ywia

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #63 on: September 14, 2019, 03:35:42 PM »
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  • All I know is that don’t want a piece of chicken that was on the ground with any bugs on it.  Yuck.  
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #64 on: September 15, 2019, 07:01:07 AM »
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  • Rubbish. There you go again with your non-existent charism of reading hearts, minds, and souls to create yet another straw man.

    Quote any sedevacantist who has said, "the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope."

    Precisely because we do have hope, every sedevacantist I know prays for the conciliar sect, just not with the conciliar sect.

    Your thinking is sloppy, if indeed you think at all.

    Good to know that you do not believe that adherents of the conciliar church are beyond all hope. I'll keep that in mind for future postings.

    And this isn't about me going to pray with conciliar Catholics for the Amazon synod. I never said that. 

    Do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of those who adhere to the conciliar church? If not, why not?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #65 on: September 15, 2019, 11:38:02 AM »
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  • Good to know that you do not believe that adherents of the conciliar church are beyond all hope. I'll keep that in mind for future postings.

    And this isn't about me going to pray with conciliar Catholics for the Amazon synod. I never said that.

    Do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of those who adhere to the conciliar church? If not, why not?
    You might "keep in mind" a fundamental truth: You cannot read hearts, minds, and souls.
    So stop projecting your noisome imaginings upon others, give up your straw men, and stick with objective truths, verifiable verbatim quotes, rationality and logic, and demonstrable facts.
    Is your question intended as an insult? Of course God hears all prayers.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #66 on: September 15, 2019, 11:43:25 AM »
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  • You might "keep in mind" a fundamental truth: You cannot read hearts, minds, and souls.
    So stop projecting your noisome imaginings upon others, give up your straw men, and stick with objective truths, verifiable verbatim quotes, rationality and logic, and demonstrable facts.
    Is your question intended as an insult? Of course God hears all prayers.

    If you believe that God hears all prayers, then why are you complaining about Burke and Schneider asking for prayers for the Amazon synod?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #67 on: September 15, 2019, 12:23:50 PM »
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  • Quote
    Do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of those who adhere to the conciliar church? If not, why not?
    When one is in mortal sin, all of one's prayers are not beneficial in the same way that one in the state of grace's prayers are.  God still hears all prayers, but since He is PRIMARILY concerned with the salvation of our souls (and we, mostly, are not...and certainly the person is mortal sin is not concerned with salvation), thus He uses our prayers PRIMARILY to help us convert, to go to confession and to get back in the state of grace.  It's like if a person were starving, yet they were praying for tickets to a music concert.  God would not hear the latter prayer, and He would use those prayers to provide them with the basics first - food or conversion.
    .
    In the same way, the vast majority (98%) of novus ordo catholics are not orthodox, not living the Faith and not concerned with salvation, as they should be.  The 2% others may be "conservative" but they are still stuck in the mire of the indult thinking, which is not totally orthodox, so they need conversion too.  Whether or not you can say that new catholics have "faith" depends on how you define "faith" (something which +Williamson never did and which is problematic because his statement is too ambiguous).
    .
    So does God hear the prayers of the novus ordo catholic in the same way that He hears those of Traditionalists (presuming the Traditionalist in question is in the state of grace)?  No, He does not.  For Traditionalists are 100% orthodox and, assuming they are in grace, have their priorities straight.  While those in the novus ordo need to convert in some way, so God prioritizes their prayers for their conversion first, with all other things as being superficial.  As the Gospel today stated, "Seek first the Kingdom of God...and all else will be given to you."  Those in the novus ordo do NOT seek FIRST the kingdom of God, as they seek first the kingdom of rome, and of the pope, with the True Faith being a secondary priority.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #68 on: September 15, 2019, 12:28:35 PM »
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  • It doesn't have to be that complicated, Pax Vobis.

    Prayers and fasting have been asked for by two members of the conciliar hierarchy. These two men are FAR from perfect, as are many conciliar Catholics (and traditional Catholics). But that doesn't mean that their prayers and fasting are futile. If you believe that their prayers are futile, that's your choice.

    As Bp. Williamson has said, it would be a mistake to think that there is no faith left in the Novus Ordo (Catholics).
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #69 on: September 15, 2019, 12:40:22 PM »
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  • Quote
     If you believe that their prayers are futile, that's your choice.
    That's not what I said at all.  Not even close.  

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #70 on: September 15, 2019, 12:50:05 PM »
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  • That's not what I said at all.  Not even close.  

    I disagree.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #71 on: September 15, 2019, 01:58:54 PM »
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  • Those in the novus ordo do NOT seek FIRST the kingdom of God, as they seek first the kingdom of rome, and of the pope, with the True Faith being a secondary priority.
    That is quite a broad and general sweeping accusation.
    Also, last I checked, Pride was still one of the seven deadly sins.

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #72 on: September 15, 2019, 02:19:35 PM »
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  • For Traditionalists are 100% orthodox and, assuming they are in grace, have their priorities straight.  

    For sure.

    'Blessed are the Trad, for only they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.'  

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #73 on: September 15, 2019, 03:58:22 PM »
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  • If you believe that God hears all prayers, then why are you complaining about Burke and Schneider asking for prayers for the Amazon synod?

    Are you dyslexic? Or dishonest? cannot tell the difference between praying for someone and praying with someone?

    Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," teaches that we are not to pray with heretics.

    Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that we are not to pray for  heretics.

    Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that heretics may not ask for prayers.

    Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that God does not hear the prayers of heretics.

    Hence, I pray for heretics, but am unwilling to pray with heretics.

    To hell with your straw man deceits.



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Cardinal Burke and Bishop Athanasius call for a 40 day PrayerFastingCrusade.
    « Reply #74 on: September 15, 2019, 04:07:17 PM »
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  • When one is in mortal sin, all of one's prayers are not beneficial in the same way that one in the state of grace's prayers are.  God still hears all prayers, but since He is PRIMARILY concerned with the salvation of our souls (and we, mostly, are not...and certainly the person is mortal sin is not concerned with salvation), thus He uses our prayers PRIMARILY to help us convert, to go to confession and to get back in the state of grace.  It's like if a person were starving, yet they were praying for tickets to a music concert.  God would not hear the latter prayer, and He would use those prayers to provide them with the basics first - food or conversion.
    .
    In the same way, the vast majority (98%) of novus ordo catholics are not orthodox, not living the Faith and not concerned with salvation, as they should be.  The 2% others may be "conservative" but they are still stuck in the mire of the indult thinking, which is not totally orthodox, so they need conversion too.  Whether or not you can say that new catholics have "faith" depends on how you define "faith" (something which +Williamson never did and which is problematic because his statement is too ambiguous).
    .
    So does God hear the prayers of the novus ordo catholic in the same way that He hears those of Traditionalists (presuming the Traditionalist in question is in the state of grace)?  No, He does not.  For Traditionalists are 100% orthodox and, assuming they are in grace, have their priorities straight.  While those in the novus ordo need to convert in some way, so God prioritizes their prayers for their conversion first, with all other things as being superficial.  As the Gospel today stated, "Seek first the Kingdom of God...and all else will be given to you."  Those in the novus ordo do NOT seek FIRST the kingdom of God, as they seek first the kingdom of rome, and of the pope, with the True Faith being a secondary priority.

    Articulate clarity, but that did not stop the dishonest harpy from immediately twisting your unmistakeable clarity into "their prayers are futile."

    I no longer expect honesty or rationality from someone who insists that Señor "Jesus made himself the devil" Bergoglio is "Pope."