Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Nishant Xavier on September 13, 2019, 07:56:43 AM
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His Excellency Bishop Athanasius Schneider, truly a latter day Athanasius for our time, and His Eminence Cardinal Raymond Burke, have called on the Faithful to join in a 40 day Crusade of prayer and fasting, with God's Grace and to the best of one's abilities. From: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/crusade (http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/crusade)
In an earlier Declaration of Truths, the good Cardinals and Bishops had already declared the necessity of Catholic Faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Here, they build on that, and attack the false ideas in the Amazon synod docuмent, including its undermining Clerical Continence and Celibacy etc. Thoughts?
A CRUSADE OF PRAYER AND FASTING: TO IMPLORE GOD THAT ERROR AND HERESY DO NOT PERVERT THE COMING SPECIAL ASSEMBLY OF THE SYNOD OF BISHOPS FOR THE PAN-AMAZON Various prelates and lay commentators, as well as lay institutions, have warned that the authors of the Instrumentum Laboris, issued by the secretariat of the Synod of Bishops, to serve as the basis for discussion in the coming Special Assembly for the Pan-Amazon, have inserted serious theological errors and heresies into the docuмent. We invite Catholic clergy and laity to participate in a crusade of prayer and fasting to implore our Lord and Savior, through the intercession of His Virgin Mother, for the following intentions: that the theological errors and heresies inserted in the Instrumentum Laboris may not be approved during the synodal assembly; that particularly Pope Francis, in the exercise of the Petrine ministry, may confirm his brethren in the faith by an unambiguous rejection of the errors of the Instrumentum Laboris and that he may not consent to the abolition of priestly celibacy in the Latin Church by introducing the praxis of the ordination of married men, the so-called “viri probati”, to the Holy Priesthood. We propose a forty-day crusade of prayer and fasting to begin on September 17 and end on October 26, 2019, the day before the conclusion of the Special Assembly of the Synod of Bishops for the PanAmazon. Anyone who first learns about the Crusade after the date of its beginning can naturally join the Crusade at any point. During the forty-day crusade of prayer and fasting, we propose to pray daily at least one decade of the Holy Rosary and to fast once a week for the above mentioned intentions. According to the tradition of the Church, fasting consists in eating only one full meal during the day, and additionally, one may eat up to two smaller meals. Fasting on bread and water is also recommended to those who are able to do so.
It is our duty to make the faithful aware of some of the main errors that are being spread through the Instrumentum Laboris. By way of premise, it must be observed that the docuмent is long and is marked by a language which is not clear in its meaning, especially in what regards the deposit of faith (depositum fidei). Among the principal errors, we especially note the following:
1. Implicit pantheism The Instrumentum Laboris promotes a pagan socialization of “Mother Earth”, based on a cosmology of the Amazonian tribes that is implicitly pantheistic. ‒ Aboriginal people discover how all parts “are dimensions that constitutively exist in relation, forming a vital whole” (n°21) and therefore live “in communion with nature as a whole” (n°18) and “in dialogue with the spirits” (n°75); ‒ Their life and “good living” are characterized by “harmony of relationships” between “the whole cosmos – nature, men, the supreme being” and the “various spiritual forces” (n°12 & 13), captured in the “mantra” of Pope Francis: “everything is connected” (n°25); ‒ The beliefs and rites of the “elderly healers” (n°88 & 89) regarding the “many-named divinity” acting with and in relation to nature (n°25), “create harmony and balance between human beings and the cosmos” (n°87); ‒ Therefore, we must listen to the cry of (n°146), stop the extermination of (n°17) and live healthily in harmony with “Mother Earth” (n°85). The Magisterium of the Church rejects such an implicit pantheism as incompatible with the Catholic Faith: “The warmth of Mother Earth, whose divinity pervades the whole of creation, is held to bridge the gap between creation and the transcendent Father-God of Judaism and Christianity, and removes the prospect of being judged by such a Being. In such a vision of a closed universe that contains ‘God’ and other spiritual beings along with ourselves, we recognize here an implicit pantheism” (Pontifical Council for Culture & Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, “Jesus Christ. The Bearer of the Water of Life: A Christian Reflection on the ‘New Age’”, 2.3.1). In the following affirmation the Magisterium of the Church rejects pantheism and relativism, teaching: “They tend to relativize religious doctrine, in favor of a vague world–view expressed as a system of myths and symbols dressed in religious language. Moreover, they often propose a pantheistic concept of God which is incompatible with Sacred Scripture and Christian Tradition. They replace personal responsibility to God for our actions with a sense of duty to the cosmos, thus overturning the true concept of sin and the need for redemption through Christ” (John Paul II, Address to the United States Bishops of Iowa, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska on their “Ad Limina” Visit, 28 May 1993).
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2. Pagan superstitions as sources of Divine Revelation and alternative pathways for salvation The Instrumentum Laboris draws from its implicit pantheistic conception an erroneous concept of Divine Revelation, stating basically that God continues to self-communicate in history through the conscience of the peoples and the cries of nature. According to this view, the pagan superstitions of the Amazon tribes are an expression of divine Revelation deserving an attitude of dialogue and acceptance on the part of the Church: ‒ The Amazon is a “theological place” where faith “or the experience of God in history” is lived; it is “a particular source of God’s revelation: epiphanic places” where the “caresses of God” become “incarnate in history” (n°19); ‒ The Church must “discover the incarnate and active presence of God” in “the spirituality of original peoples” (n°33), recognizing in them “other avenues / pathways” (n°39), since the Creator Spirit “has nurtured the spirituality of these peoples for centuries, even before the proclamation of the Gospel” (n°120) teaching them “faith in the God Father-Mother Creator” and “the living relationship with nature and ‘Mother Earth’” as well as “with ancestors” (n°121); ‒ Through dialogue, the Church must avoid imposing “petrified doctrines” (n°38), “formulations of faith expressed with other cultural referents” (n°120), and a “corporatist attitude, that reserve salvation exclusively for one’s own creed,” (n°39); by so doing, the Church will be journeying “in search of its identity towards unity in the Holy Spirit” (n°40); The Magisterium of the Church rejects the relativization of the uniqueness of God’s revelation as contained in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, teaching: “The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures just as she venerates the body of the Lord (...) She has always maintained them, and continues to do so, together with sacred Tradition, as the supreme rule of faith, since, as inspired by God and committed once and for all to writing, they impart the word of God Himself without change, and make the voice of the Holy Spirit resound in the words of the prophets and Apostles. Therefore, like the Christian religion itself, all the preaching of the Church must be nourished and regulated by Sacred Scripture” (Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum, n°21). The Magisterium of the Church affirms that there is one unique Savior, Jesus Christ, and the Church is His unique Mystical Body and Bride: “In connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must be firmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: ‘a single Catholic and Apostolic Church’. Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church (cf. Mt 16:18; 28:20) and that he would guide her by his Spirit (cf. Jn 16:13) mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church — like everything that belongs to the Church's integrity — will never be lacking” (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith – Declaration Dominus Iesus on the unicity and salvific universality of Jesus Christ and the Church, n°16).
3. Intercultural dialogue instead of evangelization The Instrumentum Laboris contains the erroneous theory that aboriginal people have already received divine revelation, and that the Catholic Church in the Amazon should undergo a “missionary and pastoral conversion”, instead of introducing doctrine and practice of universal truth and goodness. The Instrumentum Laboris says also that the Church must enrich herself with the symbols and rites of the aboriginal people: ‒ An “outgoing Church” avoids the risk of “proposing a solution with universal value” or the application of “a monolithic body of doctrine guarded by all” (n°110) and favours interculturality, i.e. “a mutual enrichment of cultures in dialogue,” because “the active subjects of inculturation are the indigenous peoples themselves” (n°122); ‒ Furthermore, the Church recognizes “indigenous spirituality as a source of riches for the Christian experience” and undertakes “a catechesis that assumes the language and meaning of the narratives of the indigenous and Afro-descendant cultures” (n°123); ‒ By mutually sharing their “their experiences of God,” believers make “their differences a stimulus to grow and deepen their own faith” (n°136). The Magisterium of the Church rejects the idea that missionary activity is merely intercultural enrichment, teaching: “‘Missions’ is the term usually given to those particular undertakings by which the heralds of the Gospel, sent out by the Church and going forth into the whole world, carry out the task of preaching the Gospel and planting the Church among peoples or groups who do not yet believe in Christ. (...) The proper purpose of this missionary activity is evangelization, and the planting of the Church among those peoples and groups where it has not yet taken root. (...) The chief means of the planting referred to is the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ” (Second Vatican Council, Decree Ad Gentes, n°6). “Through inculturation the Church makes the Gospel incarnate in different cultures and at the same time introduces peoples, together with their cultures, into her own community. She transmits to them her own values, at the same time taking the good elements that already exist in them and renewing them from within. Through inculturation the Church, for her part, becomes a more intelligible sign of what she is, and a more effective instrument of mission” (Pope John Paul II, Encyclical Redemptoris Missio, n°52) ...
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Just fast and pray.
Ecuмenism is false. You don’t encourage people to retain traces of their culture that includes symbols or idols of false gods of false religions of their past. Pagans should be baptized and taught the faith. They should be encouraged to live the faith in everything. Jesus Christ now and forever.
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His Excellency Bishop Athanasius Schneider, truly a latter day Athanasius for our time, and His Eminence Cardinal Raymond Burke, have called on the Faithful to join in a 40 day Crusade of prayer and fasting, with God's Grace and to the best of one's abilities. From: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/crusade (http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/crusade)
I have to disagree. I believe that men like +Schneider and +Burke are VERY DANGEROUS to Tradition. In calling out the most egregious of the V2 era heresies, they present themselves as paragons of orthodoxy, whereas in point of fact they themselves are Modernists. So people cold be lulled to sleep about other V2 errors by following their lead.
It's easy to figure out who Bergoglio is, but men like these create confusion by presenting the appearances of Traditional Catholic theology.
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Yes, Pax Vobis spoke about these "traditional" prelates in another thread.
Indeed, people are so desperate for ANY truth and common sense, they grasp at anything, even a morsel of it.
In a world where all food is covered in maggots and roaches, if you find a cold, dusty, half-eaten chicken drumstick on the ground that has NO BUGS ON IT (yay!) you get all excited and dig right in.
But a cold, dust-covered, half-eaten drumstick with no bugs on it yet is NOT "as good as it gets". We Traditional Catholics, at least, know what we're missing: How about a nice clean, piping hot piece of fried chicken fresh from the deep-fryer at a well known restaurant that specializes in fried chicken? (Yes, Fridays are hard on me...hahaha)
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Why am I not surprised that the biggest SSPX apologist (XavierSem) has so re-calibrated his scale of "good and bad" that a cold, dusty, half-eaten drumstick is the best food he ever finds? After all, he's in the SSPX milieu now. They're losing it.
The SSPX is the dog who has returned to its vomit. They left the vomit of Vatican II, and now they have returned to it. Like pigs return to wallowing in the mire, even after they've been hosed off, so also the SSPX can't resist going back to the Conciliar Church and its errors.
All the modern-day Athanasiuses have fled for the Resistance. Anyone left is a sellout with one or more higher priorities than God and His glory, and the glory of Holy Mother Church.
Even if that "higher priority" is just "the good of the SSPX". Sorry, but God comes before the SSPX. If the SSPX has outlived its usefulness, then so be it. Human emotional attachment is not a virtue, nor is it meritorious. Cry a little, and move on. It's not like Christ ever made a promise to +ABL about how long the SSPX would last.
There are some real fanboys who have deified the SSPX and/or +ABL. They had their heart set on +ABL fixing the Crisis at some point, even if only post-humously via his SSPX.
But be of good cheer, SSPXers. His first choice of bishop, Bishop Williamson, is continuing the good fight. So +ABL still gets credit. And the SSPX formed all the good priests who left to form the Resistance. All 4 Resistance bishops were formed in the SSPX.
But you need to move on, already. The SSPX will do less good every year from now on, until they utterly fail. They are doomed, since the whole leadership has gone over to a pro-Vatican II mindset. There is no human hope of repair. Sure, God could work a miracle, but He could work a miracle with ANY religious group or Congregation. God could create a new congregation out of NOTHING, going from void to a new congregation of 500 full grown men. So saying "God could always convert them" doesn't mean much, practically speaking.
Just like I wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton because "God could always convert her. She still has a soul to save." Come to me asking for my vote AFTER she has converted then, OK?
We have to judge the objective goodness and badness of actions and positions AS THEY EXIST, in reality, TODAY.
You don't advise your daughter to marry an atheist or a Jew because "He could always convert, and Jews make the best Catholics". You can't treat a Maybe as a "Yes". Especially since, for God, everything is a Maybe!
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...they present themselves as paragons of orthodoxy, whereas in point of fact they themselves are Modernists.
Could you please elaborate?
If this has already been discussed on the forum somewhere, a simple link to that discussion would suffice (I'm not very good with the 'search' function here).
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I have to disagree. I believe that men like +Schneider and +Burke are VERY DANGEROUS to Tradition. In calling out the most egregious of the V2 era heresies, they present themselves as paragons of orthodoxy, whereas in point of fact they themselves are Modernists. So people cold be lulled to sleep about other V2 errors by following their lead.
It's easy to figure out who Bergoglio is, but men like these create confusion by presenting the appearances of Traditional Catholic theology.
Burke I question, but I have nothing against Schneider, though I do not know everything about him. If we cannot trust him, then I know of no Bishop with a public presence within the Novus Ordo who we can trust. He is the best one I know of. There is a photo of him posing with ministers of other religions as a sign that he is a false ecuмenist heretic, but I was not there with them to know if he was praying to their false Gods, or trying to convert them from their false gods and their Idolatry (I assume the latter).
The most touching thing I ever heard from a Novus Ordo Bishop of our generation was how in an interview he told the story of how he went to his underground Bishop behind the red curtain one last time before he "escaped" into the west. And the Bishop warned him that in Germany (I believe he was going to Germany) in some of the Churches they allow Communion in the hand. Then when he and his family got to Germany they went to Mass and everyone was receiving Our Lord in their hands. So they talked among each other and decided to go to another Church (there were four Catholic Churches in his town) and the same thing happened. So they went to the third Church and the same thing happened. And finally they thought there must have been one Church in their town where Our Lord was respected during Holy Communion and they went to the final Church in their town. And there they also found that the people were receiving Communion in the hand. And they were heartbroken. I do not remember if they cried, but I hope they did.
So I want to trust Schneider.
Perhaps there are some hidden good Bishops, but I have never heard anything about them. I do not want to throw away all the Bishops who say the Novus Ordo.
I don't want to look at the entire Novus Ordo hierarchy and say "Let the dead bury the dead." Are we really at that point? If we have to I will accept that. But I do not think we are there yet. I still have hope for some of them as I have hope for some of the laity who still attend to Novus Ordo because they do not know anything else. I have little hope for the older generation. Those who grew up with the traditional Mass and rejected it knowing full well what they are doing. But the younger ones who grew up in the Novus Ordo I have more hope for.
As R&R we have to hope that the Novus Ordo will at some point convert so we cannot throw them all away like the sedevacantists do. We should see signs of orthodoxy and hope for the best and that they will grow into a rebirth of tradition.
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The SSPX is the dog who has returned to its vomit. They left the vomit of Vatican II, and now they have returned to it.
This is the perfect metaphor for what's going on.
So the dog, after it has rid itself of something foul (harmful or poisonous) in the food, suddenly finds itself feeling better. Then, feeling better, it regains its appetite ... and so it decides that the vomit might be tasty afterall.
Same thing here. SSPX went many decades separated from the V2 poison. Having so long been separated, they felt better and more alive as Catholics, and have forgotten the foul poison that remains there. They take a lick. Hey, not so bad. I'm not sure what the big deal was with the food in the first place. Then another lick, then a bite. Suddenly they've re-ingested the entire poisonous meal.
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It's not like Christ ever made a promise to +ABL about how long the SSPX would last.
Heck, St. Ignatius was still alive when the Jesuits started going south.
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Burke I question, but I have nothing against Schneider, though I do not know everything about him.
This would likely change if you knew more.
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So I want to trust Schneider.
I would like to as well, but so long as he operates within the Conciliar framework he is ipso facto un-trustworthy.
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I don't want to look at the entire Novus Ordo hierarchy and say "Let the dead bury the dead." Are we really at that point? If we have to I will accept that. But I do not think we are there yet. I still have hope for some of them as I have hope for some of the laity who still attend to Novus Ordo because they do not know anything else. I have little hope for the older generation. Those who grew up with the traditional Mass and rejected it knowing full well what they are doing.
Matto, you rightly chastise the older generations for rejecting Tradition with full knowledge. Yet you hold out hope for the hierarchy, who is filled with the older generation. Don’t you see the problem there? The hierarchy is doomed PRECISELY because they rejected orthodoxy through V2. And 50 yrs later, we see the devastating fruits of such rejection. Most of the hierarchy still can’t “connect the dots”, because as Fr Hesse pointed out, having spent a lot of time in Rome around these people, most of them aren’t well schooled in the Faith or they keep their eyes closed to the modernism all around them, because they are just “happy to be there” with a good job. So we can’t trust them due to their weak faith or their lack of fortitude. Or both.
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The younger generations you hold out hope for, only have hope due to Tradition. The novus ordo only offers the new age religion of humanism, the freemasonic brotherhood of globalism and the one-world community of the age of anti-Christ. It can bear no good fruits; 50 years have proved this.
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Could you please elaborate?
If this has already been discussed on the forum somewhere, a simple link to that discussion would suffice (I'm not very good with the 'search' function here).
Personally, I know next to nothing about these two, but knowing that for the last 50 years they've said the new "mass" is enough to know that neither are even close to being a "latter day Athanasius for our time".
They are as orthodox as PBXVI was - which is to repeat Lad's words: "they present themselves as paragons of orthodoxy, whereas in point of fact they themselves are Modernists". And that's being nice.
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Recall that Burke "consecrated" a tranny to be a N.O. "nun."
"And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?"
2 Corinthians 6:15
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The younger generations you hold out hope for, only have hope due to Tradition. The novus ordo only offers the new age religion of humanism, the freemasonic brotherhood of globalism and the one-world community of the age of anti-Christ. It can bear no good fruits; 50 years have proved this.
Yes, the hope is in the traditions and not the Novus Ordo. But for the traditions to be restored, it would take those within the Novus Ordo converting to tradition. I am simply trying to do what Archbishop Lefebvre called for. To cling to the Eternal Rome of generations upon generations while rejecting the Neo-modernist Rome. Where is the Eternal Rome? Somewhere among the muck it is there. It is not extinguished. It is just hard to see. I am trying to see Her and cling to Her. Some see hope in the Eastern Rites. Some see hope in the Russian Orthodox converting and becoming fervent Catholics after the Consecration of Russia (Does Bishop Williamson hope for this?). Some see hope in nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr Jews converting en masse and becoming good Catholics. I don't know the answers. But at some point we must be hoping for the conversion of the Pope in Rome to the true faith. Even sedeprivationists hope for this. So if not Francis, one of his successors will convert if the Church is to return for tradition. So I try to see hope in the little steps such as the movement of the tabernacles back to the high altar, ad-orientem worship, or the Latin Mass coming back and being celebrated by the younger priests within the local dioceses (my own local parish has a priest who celebrates the Latin Mass).
Perhaps I hope too much. I don't know. Lately I have been more hopeful and less dire in my thoughts. I am happy and trusting. But my father tells me people can smell my naivete.
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Here's some of +Schneider's thinking --
http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/04/bishop-athanasius-schneiders-will-save.html (http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/04/bishop-athanasius-schneiders-will-save.html)
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Here's some of +Schneider's thinking --
http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/04/bishop-athanasius-schneiders-will-save.html (http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2015/04/bishop-athanasius-schneiders-will-save.html)
Yes, some of those quotes are troubling. It reminds me of the observation that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Perhaps we should hope and pray to Saint Lucy that Schneider and others like him regain their eyesight completely. But I feel proud inferring that we can see and Bishop Schneider is half-blind.
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Recall that Burke "consecrated" a tranny to be a N.O. "nun."
Never heard that; where can I find something written on it?
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I have to disagree. I believe that men like +Schneider and +Burke are VERY DANGEROUS to Tradition. In calling out the most egregious of the V2 era heresies, they present themselves as paragons of orthodoxy, whereas in point of fact they themselves are Modernists. So people cold be lulled to sleep about other V2 errors by following their lead.
It's easy to figure out who Bergoglio is, but men like these create confusion by presenting the appearances of Traditional Catholic theology.
Ditto
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Never heard that; where can I find something written on it?
Many sources:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&oq=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&aqs=chrome..69i57.10839j0j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&oq=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&aqs=chrome..69i57.10839j0j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
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:sleep:
Get back to me when the Not so Dynamic Duo actually condemns Vatican 2 and converts to the Catholic Faith.
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:sleep:
Get back to me when the Not so Dynamic Duo actually condemns Vatican 2 and converts to the Catholic Faith.
What would you do if they did condemn Vatican II and convert to the Catholic faith in your eyes?
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Why am I not surprised that the biggest SSPX apologist (XavierSem) has so re-calibrated his scale of "good and bad" that a cold, dusty, half-eaten drumstick is the best food he ever finds? After all, he's in the SSPX milieu now. They're losing it.
The SSPX is the dog who has returned to its vomit. They left the vomit of Vatican II, and now they have returned to it. Like pigs return to wallowing in the mire, even after they've been hosed off, so also the SSPX can't resist going back to the Conciliar Church and its errors.
All the modern-day Athanasiuses have fled for the Resistance. Anyone left is a sellout with one or more higher priorities than God and His glory, and the glory of Holy Mother Church.
Even if that "higher priority" is just "the good of the SSPX". Sorry, but God comes before the SSPX. If the SSPX has outlived its usefulness, then so be it. Human emotional attachment is not a virtue, nor is it meritorious. Cry a little, and move on. It's not like Christ ever made a promise to +ABL about how long the SSPX would last.
There are some real fanboys who have deified the SSPX and/or +ABL. They had their heart set on +ABL fixing the Crisis at some point, even if only post-humously via his SSPX.
But be of good cheer, SSPXers. His first choice of bishop, Bishop Williamson, is continuing the good fight. So +ABL still gets credit. And the SSPX formed all the good priests who left to form the Resistance. All 4 Resistance bishops were formed in the SSPX.
But you need to move on, already. The SSPX will do less good every year from now on, until they utterly fail. They are doomed, since the whole leadership has gone over to a pro-Vatican II mindset. There is no human hope of repair. Sure, God could work a miracle, but He could work a miracle with ANY religious group or Congregation. God could create a new congregation out of NOTHING, going from void to a new congregation of 500 full grown men. So saying "God could always convert them" doesn't mean much, practically speaking.
Just like I wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton because "God could always convert her. She still has a soul to save." Come to me asking for my vote AFTER she has converted then, OK?
We have to judge the objective goodness and badness of actions and positions AS THEY EXIST, in reality, TODAY.
You don't advise your daughter to marry an atheist or a Jew because "He could always convert, and Jews make the best Catholics". You can't treat a Maybe as a "Yes". Especially since, for God, everything is a Maybe!
How do you reconcile this whole post with your "The One Ring" post? Not trying to be snarky here, I'm just honestly confused.
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Many sources:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&oq=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&aqs=chrome..69i57.10839j0j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&oq=Cardinal+Burke+consecrated+transɛҳuąƖ+as+nun&aqs=chrome..69i57.10839j0j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
This may come as a surprise, but yes, I can perform a Joogle search. First two hits from the afore-cited link are from N.O.Watch and T.I.A. My apologies if I don't immediately find these incontrovertible and absolutely compelling. Third hit is from something calling itself "Phatmass"; um, no thanks. You can click on it if you'd like, but I'll pass. Fourth hit is of absolutely no relevance to Burke. The fifth hit is from 'Badger Catholic'; ok, I'll bite on this one. Reading that post, though, I get the distinct impression that the Vatican overruled Burke on this, and that he in fact objected. Obviously, based on the lack of any factual details, I could be wrong.
The rest of the links are not all that relevant.
Except one.
Ninth link down. From 'The Eponymous Flower', which reported on Burke calling out the SSPX as 'schismatic.' I've seen the video supporting this (and I'm sure it ain't no 'deepfake').
I can see why many on this forum are no defender of Burke. So be it. I've only met him once. I really have no opinion on the man, other than he's one of only two living 'dubia' Cardinals still alive.
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What would you do if they did condemn Vatican II and convert to the Catholic faith in your eyes?
I would at least start to pay attention to them. Having said that, I don't expect them to do any of that.
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It's not a bad thing that Cardinal Burke and Bp. Schneider are calling attention to the Amazon synod docuмents. It's good to know what the Modernists are currently up to in the conciliar church. I would imagine that if +ABL were still alive, he would have something to say about a heretical synod taking place in the conciliar church, even though such a synod is not surprising.
+ABL did care about the Modernist shenanigans in the conciliar church, and he did speak out against them. Of course, since the SSPX no longer carries on the legacy of +ABL, they aren't saying much about the synod. I can't find anything about the synod on the SSPX DICI website. Apparently, they aren't concerned about it at all.
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It's not a bad thing that Cardinal Burke and Bp. Schneider are calling attention to the Amazon synod docuмents. It's good to know what the Modernists are currently up to in the conciliar church. I would imagine that if +ABL were still alive, he would have something to say about a heretical synod taking place in the conciliar church, even though such a synod is not surprising.
+ABL did care about the Modernist shenanigans in the conciliar church, and he did speak out against them. Of course, since the SSPX no longer carries on the legacy of +ABL, they aren't saying much about the synod. I can't find anything about the synod on the SSPX DICI website. Apparently, they aren't concerned about it at all.
But Meg, there are others calling attention to this synod. Why do we need to hear from Modernists in the "conciliar church" about other Modernists in the conciliar church?
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But Meg, there are others calling attention to this synod. Why do we need to hear from Modernists in the "conciliar church" about other Modernists in the conciliar church?
Because "we" aren't necessarily the ones that Burke and Schneider are trying to reach.
And maybe they actually have a view that prayer and fasting are worth a try. Sedevacantists don't understand this.
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Because "we" aren't necessarily the ones that Burke and Schneider are trying to reach.
OK....but the folks they are trying to reach are being fooled by them.
Ah, I see you added a little dig there. Couldn't help yourself Meg could you?
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OK....but the folks they are trying to reach are being fooled by them.
In what way?
You believe that everyone associated with the conciliar church need to keep quiet about what is going with the synod?
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In what way?
You believe that everyone associated with the conciliar church need to keep quiet about what is going with the synod?
That's already been addressed in this thread.
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That's already been addressed in this thread.
I have to assume that you believe, like the liberals, that silence about the synod is preferable to asking for prayer and fasting.
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I have to assume that you believe, like the liberals, that silence about the synod is preferable to asking for prayer and fasting.
Of course Meg...you can only assume the worst about any sede. I made the mistake of trying to respectfully engage with you. I won't make that mistake again.
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Of course Meg...you can only assume the worst about any sede. I made the mistake of trying to respectfully engage with you. I won't make that mistake again.
Thank you.
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Thank you.
Meg,
In this context, what does this verse mean to you?
"And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?"
2 Corinthians 6:15
In this context, how does the gravamen of Mortalium animos apply?
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm)
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Meg,
In this context, what does this verse mean to you?
"And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?"
2 Corinthians 6:15
In this context, how does the gravamen of Mortalium animos apply?
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm)
Bp. Williamson has said that it is a mistake to think that there is no faith left in the Novus Ordo (those who attend it).
I cannot completely write of everyone in the conciliar church as being of Belial. That's one of the problems with sedeism.
I have no interest in looking at the encyclical you linked to. It doesn't have to be complicated.
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Bp. Williamson has said that it is a mistake to think that there is no faith left in the Novus Ordo (those who attend it).
I cannot completely write of everyone in the conciliar church as being of Belial.
I have no interest in looking at the encyclical you linked to. It doesn't have to be complicated.
A single heresy puts one out of the Church.
Thank you for stipulating that you are not interested in a papal exhortation that we should not worship with heretics.
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A single heresy puts one out of the Church.
Thank you for stipulating that you are not interested in a papal exhortation that we should not worship with heretics.
Why would you want to participate on a forum that mentions those who attend the conciliar church in a charitable yet realistic fashion?
Shoudn't you start a sede forum in which nothing charitable is ever allowed to be mentioned toward those who attend the conciliar church? Because we are allowed to mention it here. You don't like it, but that's okay.
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Why would you want to participate on a forum that mentions those who attend the conciliar church in a charitable yet realistic fashion?
Shoudn't you start a sede forum in which nothing charitable is ever allowed to be mentioned toward those who attend the conciliar church? Because we are allowed to mention it here. You don't like it, but that's okay.
Why would you dishonestly conflate worship and discussion?
It is worship with heretics—such as joining in prayer and fasting—that is forbidden. Other forms of interaction, such as discussion, are not forbidden.
Since you opened the door to suggestions, shouldn't you start a forum for noisome domineering harpies?
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Why would you dishonestly conflate worship and discussion?
It is worship with heretics—such as joining in prayer and fasting—that is forbidden. Other forms of interaction, such as discussion, are not forbidden.
Since you opened the door to suggestions, shouldn't you start a forum for noisome domineering harpies?
Nonsense. That's what I expect from sedes.
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Nonsense. That's what I expect from sedes.
A gratuitous and contumacious rejection of a papal teaching against worshipping with heretics is what I expect from a noisome domineering harpy.
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A gratuitous and contumacious rejection of a papal teaching against worshipping with heretics is what I expect from a noisome domineering harpy.
I would expect no less from a sedevacantist.
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I would expect no less from a sedevacantist.
Except that every single sedevacantist I know accepts the papal teaching against worshipping with heretics.
In my experience, it is modernists and noisome domineering harpies that reject the papal teaching against worshipping with heretics.
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Except that every single sedevacantist I know accepts the papal teaching against worshipping with heretics.
In my experience, it is modernists and noisome domineering harpies that reject the papal teaching against worshipping with heretics.
I don't have to accept the sede view that everyone in the conciliar church is a heretic.
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Because "we" aren't necessarily the ones that Burke and Schneider are trying to reach.
And maybe they actually have a view that prayer and fasting are worth a try. Sedevacantists don't understand this.
But I thought the whole reason that you support the Resistance vs. the SSPX is because you recognize the problem of trying to do good while entrenched within the Conciliar paradigm. So, based on that, one would think you'd understand the futility of these two NO bishops. It's precisely thinking like this that has led to the SSPX compromises.
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I don't have to accept the sede view that everyone in the conciliar church is a heretic.
Recall that Burke himself "consecrated" a tranny as a N.O. "nun." You find no heresy underlying such heteropraxis? You join him in worship when he rejects Catholic teaching against mutilation of our bodies, our temples of the Holy Ghost.
Apparently too, you find no hypocrisy or irrationality in your criticism of sedes while stating you are "not interested" in papal teachings.
Perhaps you are also "not interested" in 1 Corinthians 14:34.
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Recall that Burke himself "consecrated" a tranny as a N.O. "nun." You find no heresy underlying such heteropraxis? You join him in worship when he rejects Catholic teaching against mutilation of our bodies, our temples of the Holy Ghost.
Apparently too, you find no hypocrisy or irrationality in your criticism of sedes while stating you are "not interested" in papal teachings.
Perhaps you are also "not interested" in 1 Corinthians 14:34.
Cardinal Burke's support of that tranny is old news. We all knew about that a long time ago. Is it only just recently news to you?
You can give out as much support for you sede views as you like here, but I am not obligated to accept them.
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But I thought the whole reason that you support the Resistance vs. the SSPX is because you recognize the problem of trying to do good while entrenched within the Conciliar paradigm. So, based on that, one would think you'd understand the futility of these two NO bishops. It's precisely thinking like this that has led to the SSPX compromises.
Do you agree with Matthews ring analogy? And if so, how is this type of reasoning consistent with it?
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Cardinal Burke's support of that tranny is old news. We all knew about that a long time ago. Is it only just recently news to you?
You can give out as much support for you sede views as you like here, but I am not obligated to accept them.
Do you imagine there is an expiration date on heresy?
Besides, Burke has never repented publicly about the "old news," so it remains relevant when one joins with him in worship.
Attempting to change the subject to sedevacantism, does nothing to bolster your irrational and hypocritical rejection of papal teaching.
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Do you imagine there is an expiration date on heresy?
Besides, Burke has never repented publicly about the "old news," so it remains relevant when one joins with him in worship.
Attempting to change the subject to sedevacantism, does nothing to bolster your irrational and hypocritical case.
I'm not going to accept that everyone in the conciliar church is a heretic. I'm not going to get caught up in ridiculous sedevacantist arguments. But keep trying, if you like.
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I'm not going to accept that everyone in the conciliar church is a heretic. I'm not going to get caught up in ridiculous sedevacantist arguments. But keep trying, if you like.
Your "everyone in the conciliar church" straw man betrays more of your irrationality and dishonesty.
The "old news" about Burke betrays his heresy, not the heresy of "everyone in the conciliar church." There is NO Catholic morals or dogma that allows transɛҳuąƖ mutilation, much less consecrating a biological male as a "nun." You join with him in worship.
Keep squirming.
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Your "everyone in the conciliar church" straw man betrays more of your irrationality and dishonesty.
The "old news" about Burke betrays his heresy. There is NO Catholic morals or dogma that allows transɛҳuąƖ mutilation, much less consecrating a biological male as a "nun." You join with him in worship.
Keep squirming.
I can assure you that there is no squirming being done from my side of the computer screen.
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I can assure you that there is no squirming being done from my side of the computer screen.
So far you have invoked:
- charity
- liberals
- silence
- not interested in papal teaching
- conflation of worship and discussion
- sede vacantism
- expiration date on heresy
- straw man "everyone in the conciliar church"
- straw man "no faith left in the N.O." (even attempted to made Bp. Williamson your accomplice in that one)
Not squirming, eh?
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So far you have invoked:
charity
liberals
silence
not interested in papal teaching
conflation of worship and discussion
sede vacantism
expiration date on heresy
straw man "everyone in the conciliar church"
straw man "no faith left in the N.O. (even attempted to made Bp. Williamson your accomplice)
Not squirming, eh?
:laugh2:
You take yourself much too seriously, Mark 79. Hasn't anyone ever told you that before?
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To reiterate:
I don't think it's a bad thing that Cardinal Burke and Bp. Schneider have called for prayer and fasting for that terrible Amazon synod. Are these two men perfect or unaffected by Modernism? No, not at all. That doesn't mean that they cannot at least see some of the problems with the docuмents of that synod, even though their understanding will likely be flawed in at least some respects. Their appeal for prayer and fasting might wake up a few well-intentioned sleeping Catholics in the conciliar church, who I don't believe are all beyond hope.
Sedevacantists tend to think that the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope. That's not a Catholic position to take, IMO.
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To reiterate:
I don't think it's a bad thing that Cardinal Burke and Bp. Schneider have called for prayer and fasting for that terrible Amazon synod. Are these two men perfect or unaffected by Modernism? No, not at all. That doesn't mean that they cannot at least see some of the problems with the docuмents of that synod, even though their understanding will likely be flawed in at least some respects. Their appeal for prayer and fasting might wake up a few well-intentioned sleeping Catholics in the conciliar church, who I don't believe are all beyond hope.
Sedevacantists tend to think that the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope. That's not a Catholic position to take, IMO.
Yes, that's right. It is de fide Vatican I Dogma that "In His Church, there will be Shepherds and Teachers (Bishops with Power to Rule and Teach - with Ordinary Jurisdiction and Teaching Office) until the end of time. If there are no such Bishops today, then Vatican I is a lie. But that is heretical. Therefore, there most certainly are such Bishops today, and His Eminence +Burke, and His Excellency +Athanasius are among them. That doesn't mean they are perfect, but they are certainly Catholic.
It is entirely heretical and utterly faithless to say otherwise, to say that the Catholic Hierarchy completely defected into heresy. If anyone wants to keep saying it, he or she can take it up with Jesus Christ Himself at the Judgment. Jesus Christ is Truth and promised it would never happen. You either believe Him or you don't.
Sept 17th to Oct 26 are the 40 days for prayer and fasting. Let us Traditional Catholics who are participating in the great Crusade called for by these two good Catholic Bishops of the indefectible Catholic Hierarchy resolve to go beyond the bare minimum of "once a week fasting" and "one decade of the Rosary" - let us try to meet better Traditional Catholic standards, like fasting 2 to 3 days a week at least, for those 40 days, and praying 15 decades of the Rosary every day, as also His Excellency Bishop Williamson has been urging.
I have to disagree. I believe that men like +Schneider and +Burke are VERY DANGEROUS to Tradition. In calling out the most egregious of the V2 era heresies ...
Hi Ladislaus. I understand this perspective, but have to disagree with it. If we look back to the precedent Archbishop Lefebvre set, we see His Grace was always ready to work together with good Cardinals like His Eminence Cardinal Silvio +Oddi, not to mention His Eminence Cardinal Alfredo +Ottaviani and His Eminence Giuseppe +Siri before that. Cardinal Oddi said "Thank you, Monsignor" over Archbishop Lefebvre's tomb. Archbishop Lefebvre was always a man of the Church, recognizing the necessity of a Catholic Episcopate.
Therefore, imho His Excellency Bishop Fellay and the Society of Saint Pius X is absolutely justified in following its Saintly Founder's lead.
But beyond that, Ladislaus, both Bishop Athanasius and Cardinal Burke are more traditional on doctrine than some sede Bishops, as you yourself have said before - since sede Bishops teach people can be saved without faith in Jesus Christ, whereas these Bishops taught,
"After the institution of the New and Everlasting Covenant in Jesus Christ, no one may be saved by obedience to the law of Moses alone without faith in Christ as true God and the only Savior of humankind (see Rom 3:28; Gal 2:16). 5. Muslims and others who lack faith in Jesus Christ, God and man, even monotheists, cannot give to God the same adoration as Christians do, that is to say, supernatural worship in Spirit and in Truth (see Jn 4:24; Eph 2:8) of those who have received the Spirit of filial adoption (see Rom 8:15) ...
7. True ecuмenism intends that non-Catholics should enter that unity which the Catholic Church already indestructibly possesses in virtue of the prayer of Christ, always heard by His Father, “that they may be one” (John 17:11), and which she professes in the Symbol of Faith, “I believe in one Church.”
See: https://onepeterfive.com/newly-released-declaration-of-truths-reads-like-a-neo-syllabus-of-errors/ (https://onepeterfive.com/newly-released-declaration-of-truths-reads-like-a-neo-syllabus-of-errors/)
And: https://onepeterfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Declaration_Truths_Errors_final_version_clean.pdf (https://onepeterfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Declaration_Truths_Errors_final_version_clean.pdf)
His Excellency Bishop Fellay, contrary to what is often alleged here by many, has been carrying on the good fight in Rome on these issues, and on many others, in His 31 excellent years of commendable, faithful and Saintly service as a Traditional Catholic Bishop.
"And it even condemns trying to convert them, which it calls “Uniatism”. Once again, the Holy See’s response was to say: “That is not from the Magisterium.” And quite recently you have a docuмent published by Cardinal Koch on relations with the Jews ... December 10, 2015). It is a terrible docuмent, completely heretical, which claims that the Jews can be saved without coming through Our Lord (par. 36). Exactly the opposite of what Sacred Scripture teaches us, along with the first pope himself, Saint Peter, who says this to the Jews: “There is no other name under heaven given to men [except Jesus], whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)." http://sspx.org/en/can-pastoral-council-be-debatable (http://sspx.org/en/can-pastoral-council-be-debatable)
See also: https://damselofthefaith.wordpress.com/2016/11/26/an-example-of-bishop-fellays-saintliness/ (https://damselofthefaith.wordpress.com/2016/11/26/an-example-of-bishop-fellays-saintliness/) Those who are saying Bishop Fellay has ceased to be a Heroic Traditional Catholic Shepherd whom Traditional Catholics the world over happily unite behind and under have themselves ceased to see things correctly. The SSPX doesn't want to "run and hide", but rather it's going to "stay and fight".
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Yes, that's right. It is de fide Vatican I Dogma that "In His Church, there will be Shepherds and Teachers (Bishops with Power to Rule and Teach - with Ordinary Jurisdiction and Teaching Office) until the end of time. If there are no such Bishops today, then Vatican I is a lie. But that is heretical. Therefore, there most certainly are such Bishops today, and His Eminence +Burke, and His Excellency +Athanasius are among them. That doesn't mean they are perfect, but they are certainly Catholic.
It is entirely heretical and utterly faithless to say otherwise, to say that the Catholic Hierarchy completely defected into heresy. If anyone wants to keep saying it, he or she can take it up with Jesus Christ Himself at the Judgment. Jesus Christ is Truth and promised it would never happen. You either believe Him or you don't.
Please understand that I am not arguing for the "Bishops with Power to Rule and Teach." I am merely supporting the idea of prayer and fasting called for by two men in the conciliar church, due the seriousness of the Amazon synod.
The synod should rightly be opposed. It's unfortunate that the SSPX has not, as far as I know, in any way opposed the Amazon synod, but I'm quite sure that if +ABL were alive, he would do so. The SSPX is now a wimpy version of its former self.
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I will be joining with the fasting and prayer. I am not sure how strict I will be yet. But I always think it is good to fast more than the bare minimums so I am happy to see a call to more fasting from Bishops.
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Sedevacantists tend to think that the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope. That's not a Catholic position to take, IMO.
Rubbish. There you go again with your non-existent charism of reading hearts, minds, and souls to create yet another straw man.
Quote any sedevacantist who has said, "the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope."
Precisely because we do have hope, every sedevacantist I know prays for the conciliar sect, just not with the conciliar sect.
Your thinking is sloppy, if indeed you think at all.
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That doesn't mean they are perfect, but they are certainly Catholic.
“Further, by divine and Catholic faith, all those things must be believed at which are contained in the written Word of God and in tradition, and those which are proposed by the church, either in a solemn pronouncement [ex cathedra extra ordinary Magisterium ], or in her ordinary and universal teaching power [a.v., “what has always been taught,” ordinary Magisterium ], to be believed as a divinely revealed.” Vatican Council, Session III Dogmatic Constitution Concerning the Catholic Faith (April 24, 1870) in Denzinger, Enchiridion Symbolorum, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, §1792
What part of "all" don't you understand?
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…The SSPX is now a wimpy version of its former self.
You might say the SSPX is societas vacans.
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Rubbish. There you go again with your non-existent charism of reading hearts, minds, and souls to create yet another straw man.
Quote any sedevacantist who has said, "the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope."
Precisely because we do have hope, every sedevacantist I know prays for the conciliar sect, just not with the conciliar sect.
Your thinking is sloppy, if indeed you think at all.
Mark,
You have to understand that Megs thinking is affected by her rabid anti sedevacantism. Once you do, her posts make more sense.
ywia
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All I know is that don’t want a piece of chicken that was on the ground with any bugs on it. Yuck.
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Rubbish. There you go again with your non-existent charism of reading hearts, minds, and souls to create yet another straw man.
Quote any sedevacantist who has said, "the conciliar church and its adherents are beyond all hope."
Precisely because we do have hope, every sedevacantist I know prays for the conciliar sect, just not with the conciliar sect.
Your thinking is sloppy, if indeed you think at all.
Good to know that you do not believe that adherents of the conciliar church are beyond all hope. I'll keep that in mind for future postings.
And this isn't about me going to pray with conciliar Catholics for the Amazon synod. I never said that.
Do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of those who adhere to the conciliar church? If not, why not?
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Good to know that you do not believe that adherents of the conciliar church are beyond all hope. I'll keep that in mind for future postings.
And this isn't about me going to pray with conciliar Catholics for the Amazon synod. I never said that.
Do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of those who adhere to the conciliar church? If not, why not?
You might "keep in mind" a fundamental truth: You cannot read hearts, minds, and souls.
So stop projecting your noisome imaginings upon others, give up your straw men, and stick with objective truths, verifiable verbatim quotes, rationality and logic, and demonstrable facts.
Is your question intended as an insult? Of course God hears all prayers.
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You might "keep in mind" a fundamental truth: You cannot read hearts, minds, and souls.
So stop projecting your noisome imaginings upon others, give up your straw men, and stick with objective truths, verifiable verbatim quotes, rationality and logic, and demonstrable facts.
Is your question intended as an insult? Of course God hears all prayers.
If you believe that God hears all prayers, then why are you complaining about Burke and Schneider asking for prayers for the Amazon synod?
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Do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of those who adhere to the conciliar church? If not, why not?
When one is in mortal sin, all of one's prayers are not beneficial in the same way that one in the state of grace's prayers are. God still hears all prayers, but since He is PRIMARILY concerned with the salvation of our souls (and we, mostly, are not...and certainly the person is mortal sin is not concerned with salvation), thus He uses our prayers PRIMARILY to help us convert, to go to confession and to get back in the state of grace. It's like if a person were starving, yet they were praying for tickets to a music concert. God would not hear the latter prayer, and He would use those prayers to provide them with the basics first - food or conversion.
.
In the same way, the vast majority (98%) of novus ordo catholics are not orthodox, not living the Faith and not concerned with salvation, as they should be. The 2% others may be "conservative" but they are still stuck in the mire of the indult thinking, which is not totally orthodox, so they need conversion too. Whether or not you can say that new catholics have "faith" depends on how you define "faith" (something which +Williamson never did and which is problematic because his statement is too ambiguous).
.
So does God hear the prayers of the novus ordo catholic in the same way that He hears those of Traditionalists (presuming the Traditionalist in question is in the state of grace)? No, He does not. For Traditionalists are 100% orthodox and, assuming they are in grace, have their priorities straight. While those in the novus ordo need to convert in some way, so God prioritizes their prayers for their conversion first, with all other things as being superficial. As the Gospel today stated, "Seek first the Kingdom of God...and all else will be given to you." Those in the novus ordo do NOT seek FIRST the kingdom of God, as they seek first the kingdom of rome, and of the pope, with the True Faith being a secondary priority.
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It doesn't have to be that complicated, Pax Vobis.
Prayers and fasting have been asked for by two members of the conciliar hierarchy. These two men are FAR from perfect, as are many conciliar Catholics (and traditional Catholics). But that doesn't mean that their prayers and fasting are futile. If you believe that their prayers are futile, that's your choice.
As Bp. Williamson has said, it would be a mistake to think that there is no faith left in the Novus Ordo (Catholics).
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If you believe that their prayers are futile, that's your choice.
That's not what I said at all. Not even close.
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That's not what I said at all. Not even close.
I disagree.
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Those in the novus ordo do NOT seek FIRST the kingdom of God, as they seek first the kingdom of rome, and of the pope, with the True Faith being a secondary priority.
That is quite a broad and general sweeping accusation.
Also, last I checked, Pride was still one of the seven deadly sins.
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For Traditionalists are 100% orthodox and, assuming they are in grace, have their priorities straight.
For sure.
'Blessed are the Trad, for only they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.'
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If you believe that God hears all prayers, then why are you complaining about Burke and Schneider asking for prayers for the Amazon synod?
Are you dyslexic? Or dishonest? cannot tell the difference between praying for someone and praying with someone?
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," teaches that we are not to pray with heretics.
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that we are not to pray for heretics.
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that heretics may not ask for prayers.
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that God does not hear the prayers of heretics.
Hence, I pray for heretics, but am unwilling to pray with heretics.
To hell with your straw man deceits.
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When one is in mortal sin, all of one's prayers are not beneficial in the same way that one in the state of grace's prayers are. God still hears all prayers, but since He is PRIMARILY concerned with the salvation of our souls (and we, mostly, are not...and certainly the person is mortal sin is not concerned with salvation), thus He uses our prayers PRIMARILY to help us convert, to go to confession and to get back in the state of grace. It's like if a person were starving, yet they were praying for tickets to a music concert. God would not hear the latter prayer, and He would use those prayers to provide them with the basics first - food or conversion.
.
In the same way, the vast majority (98%) of novus ordo catholics are not orthodox, not living the Faith and not concerned with salvation, as they should be. The 2% others may be "conservative" but they are still stuck in the mire of the indult thinking, which is not totally orthodox, so they need conversion too. Whether or not you can say that new catholics have "faith" depends on how you define "faith" (something which +Williamson never did and which is problematic because his statement is too ambiguous).
.
So does God hear the prayers of the novus ordo catholic in the same way that He hears those of Traditionalists (presuming the Traditionalist in question is in the state of grace)? No, He does not. For Traditionalists are 100% orthodox and, assuming they are in grace, have their priorities straight. While those in the novus ordo need to convert in some way, so God prioritizes their prayers for their conversion first, with all other things as being superficial. As the Gospel today stated, "Seek first the Kingdom of God...and all else will be given to you." Those in the novus ordo do NOT seek FIRST the kingdom of God, as they seek first the kingdom of rome, and of the pope, with the True Faith being a secondary priority.
Articulate clarity, but that did not stop the dishonest harpy from immediately twisting your unmistakeable clarity into "their prayers are futile."
I no longer expect honesty or rationality from someone who insists that Señor "Jesus made himself the devil" Bergoglio is "Pope."
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For sure.
'Blessed are the Trad, for only they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.'
Exactly.
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Are you dyslexic? Or dishonest? cannot tell the difference between praying for someone and praying with someone?
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," teaches that we are not to pray with heretics.
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that we are not to pray for heretics.
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that heretics may not ask for prayers.
Mortalium Animos, the papal encyclical in which you are "not interested," does NOT teach that God does not hear the prayers of heretics.
Hence, I pray for heretics, but am unwilling to pray with heretics.
To hell with your straw man deceits…and your other snake-like squirming deceits:
calumniating someone who explicitly denied "their prayers are futile"
conflating prayer "for" heretics and prayer "with" heretics
"charity"
"liberals"
"silence"
not interested in papal teaching
conflation of worship and discussion
sede vacantism
expiration date on heresy
straw man "everyone in the conciliar church"
straw man "no faith left in the N.O." (even attempted to made Bp. Williamson your accomplice in that one)