.


What a nice display of scholarship and sound reasoning from you, ggreg.  

Muito obrigado!    

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox communities are sister churches, responsible together for safeguarding the one Church of God.  They must therefore reprove the example of Josaphat Kuncewicz, archbishop of Polotsk (1580 – 1623). Converted from Orthodoxy, he published a Defence of the unity of the Church in 1617, in which he reproached the Orthodox for breaking the unity of the Church of God, exciting the hatred of these schismatics who martyred him.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize the Anglicans as brothers and sisters in Christ and express this recognition by praying together.  They must also condemn the example of Edmund Campion (1540 – 1581), who refused to pray with the Anglican minister, at the time of his martyrdom.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must hold that what divides Catholics and Protestants—that is, the reality of the holy and propitiatory Sacrifice of the Mass, the reality of the universal mediation of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, the reality of the Catholic priesthood, the reality of the primacy of jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome—is minimal in comparison to that which unites them.  They must therefore condemn the example of the Capuchin Fidelis of Sigmaringen (1578 – 1622) who was martyred by the Protestant reformers, to whom he had been sent as a missionary and for whom he wrote a Disputatio against Protestant ministers, on the subject of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize the value of the religious witness of the Jєωιѕн people. They must then condemn the example of Pedro de Arbues (1440 – 1485), Grand Inquisitor of Aragon, who was martyred by Jєωs in hatred of the Catholic faith.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize that after the final resurrection, God will be satisfied with the Moslems and they will be satisfied with Him. They must then condemn the example of the Capuchin Joseph of Leonessa (1556-1612) who worked without counting the cost in Constantinople among Christians reduced to slavery by the followers of Islam. His zeal caused him to be dragged before the sultan for insulting the Moslem religion and he spent three days hung from a set of gallows by a chain attached to hooks in one hand and one foot. Faithful Catholics should also deplore the example of St. Peter Mavimenus, who died in 715 after being tortured for three days for having insulted Mohammed and Islam.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, faithful Catholics must recognize that heads of state may not arrogate to themselves the right to prevent the public profession of a false religion. They must therefore condemn the example of the French king Louis IX, who limited the public practice of non-Christian religions as much as he could.

However, Josaphat Kuncewicz was canonized in 1867 by Pius IX, and Pius XI dedicated an encyclical to him; the Church celebrates his feast on November 14th. Edmund Campion was canonized by Paul VI in 1970 and the Church honours him on December 1st. Fidelis of Sigmaringen was canonized in 1746 and Clement XIV designated him as the “protomartyr of the Propaganda” (of the Faith); his feast in the Church calendar is April 24th. Pedro de Arbues was canonized by Pius IX in 1867. Joseph of Leonessa was canonized in 1737 by Benedict XIV and his feast is celebrated in the Church on February 4th; Pius IX proclaimed him patron of the missions of Turkey. St. Peter Mavimenus, lastly, is honoured in the Church on February 21. As for King St. Louis, his fairly well-known example is an ideal illustration of the teachings of St. Pius X, canonized as well. If John Paul II is truly a saint, all these saints were seriously mistaken and have given the whole Church not the example of authentic sanctity but the scandal of intolerance and fanaticism. It is impossible to avoid this dilemma.

That's called mutable truth Andy and I reject it as a concept.

If JP2 was a saint then Thomas More threw his life away for nothing.  He should have just kept his mouth shut and gone alone with a "strategy appropriate for the time", like all the other politicians and English clerics did.

And why would I care if one day I met JP2?  If hell is empty and the conscience reigns supreme then why can't I continue in the next life thinking he is a polish idiot?  If Hell is full of stick in the mud Trads and Heaven full of fαɢɢօts and clerical perverts, then I chose hell.

What's the worst that can happen to me if Jєωs and Muslims are alright with God when they by nature reject the divinity of Christ?

And what Fatima was warning us off and why Our Lady wanted Russia consecrated I have no idea.  For someone who attends the SSPX you are highly screwed up in the head.

 

MynyaM said:


"It is when they change the teachings of God, such as the FIRST COMMANDMENT for one example, the seat is vacant."  


Firstly, there is not a single example of the Vatican II popes imposing error by virtue of the attribute of Infallibility of the Church.


Secondly, No-one has the authority by canon law or otherwise to declare the Seat of Peter vacant, when the Pope has been validly elected! That is high presumption!

Listen to Fr Hesse (RIP) - first 5 minutes.


http://defeatmodernism.com/defeatmodernism/hessesspxfssp

MynyaM said:


"It is when they change the teachings of God, such as the FIRST COMMANDMENT for one example, the seat is vacant."  


Firstly, there is not a single example of the Vatican II popes imposing error by virtue of the attribute of Infallibility of the Church.


Secondly, No-one has the authority by canon law or otherwise to declare the Seat of Peter vacant, when the Pope has been validly elected! That is high presumption!

Listen to Fr Hesse (RIP) - first 5 minutes.


http://defeatmodernism.com/defeatmodernism/hessesspxfssp

Nor myself, nor my priest have declared the seat is empty, these conciLIAR wolves in sheep clothing have done it, by changing the teachings of God, Himself.  

.


What a nice display of scholarship and sound reasoning from you, ggreg.  

Muito obrigado!    

Quote from: ggreg

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox communities are sister churches, responsible together for safeguarding the one Church of God.  They must therefore reprove the example of Josaphat Kuncewicz, archbishop of Polotsk (1580 – 1623). Converted from Orthodoxy, he published a Defence of the unity of the Church in 1617, in which he reproached the Orthodox for breaking the unity of the Church of God, exciting the hatred of these schismatics who martyred him.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize the Anglicans as brothers and sisters in Christ and express this recognition by praying together.  They must also condemn the example of Edmund Campion (1540 – 1581), who refused to pray with the Anglican minister, at the time of his martyrdom.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must hold that what divides Catholics and Protestants—that is, the reality of the holy and propitiatory Sacrifice of the Mass, the reality of the universal mediation of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, the reality of the Catholic priesthood, the reality of the primacy of jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome—is minimal in comparison to that which unites them.  They must therefore condemn the example of the Capuchin Fidelis of Sigmaringen (1578 – 1622) who was martyred by the Protestant reformers, to whom he had been sent as a missionary and for whom he wrote a Disputatio against Protestant ministers, on the subject of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize the value of the religious witness of the Jєωιѕн people. They must then condemn the example of Pedro de Arbues (1440 – 1485), Grand Inquisitor of Aragon, who was martyred by Jєωs in hatred of the Catholic faith.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, the Catholic faithful must recognize that after the final resurrection, God will be satisfied with the Moslems and they will be satisfied with Him. They must then condemn the example of the Capuchin Joseph of Leonessa (1556-1612) who worked without counting the cost in Constantinople among Christians reduced to slavery by the followers of Islam. His zeal caused him to be dragged before the sultan for insulting the Moslem religion and he spent three days hung from a set of gallows by a chain attached to hooks in one hand and one foot. Faithful Catholics should also deplore the example of St. Peter Mavimenus, who died in 715 after being tortured for three days for having insulted Mohammed and Islam.

If John Paul II is truly a saint, faithful Catholics must recognize that heads of state may not arrogate to themselves the right to prevent the public profession of a false religion. They must therefore condemn the example of the French king Louis IX, who limited the public practice of non-Christian religions as much as he could.

However, Josaphat Kuncewicz was canonized in 1867 by Pius IX, and Pius XI dedicated an encyclical to him; the Church celebrates his feast on November 14th. Edmund Campion was canonized by Paul VI in 1970 and the Church honours him on December 1st. Fidelis of Sigmaringen was canonized in 1746 and Clement XIV designated him as the “protomartyr of the Propaganda” (of the Faith); his feast in the Church calendar is April 24th. Pedro de Arbues was canonized by Pius IX in 1867. Joseph of Leonessa was canonized in 1737 by Benedict XIV and his feast is celebrated in the Church on February 4th; Pius IX proclaimed him patron of the missions of Turkey. St. Peter Mavimenus, lastly, is honoured in the Church on February 21. As for King St. Louis, his fairly well-known example is an ideal illustration of the teachings of St. Pius X, canonized as well. If John Paul II is truly a saint, all these saints were seriously mistaken and have given the whole Church not the example of authentic sanctity but the scandal of intolerance and fanaticism. It is impossible to avoid this dilemma.

Quote from: ggreg

That's called mutable truth Andy and I reject it as a concept.

If JP2 was a saint then Thomas More threw his life away for nothing.  He should have just kept his mouth shut and gone alone with a "strategy appropriate for the time", like all the other politicians and English clerics did.

And why would I care if one day I met JP2?  If hell is empty and the conscience reigns supreme then why can't I continue in the next life thinking he is a polish idiot?  If Hell is full of stick in the mud Trads and Heaven full of fαɢɢօts and clerical perverts, then I chose hell.

What's the worst that can happen to me if Jєωs and Muslims are all right with God when they by nature reject the divinity of Christ?

And what Fatima was warning us of, and why Our Lady wanted Russia consecrated -- I have no idea!  For someone who attends the SSPX you are highly screwed up in the head.

 

You already know this, ggreg, but it seems certain others reading your posts might not, so here goes:  

You wouldn't have to be having any difficulties with thinking:  "If John Paul II is truly a saint, all these saints were seriously mistaken," and so on, if you would just read Benedict XVI's hermenutic of continuity.   That's where your scruples would be neutralized, because there, we find out that all the saints you mention believed the same thing that JPII believed, it's just that it appeared to come out looking not so close to the same.  That's all.  We have to look past apparent differences and a thing can be one thing and not be that thing at the same time.  Okay?  


.

To MyrnaM



"Nor myself, nor my priest have declared the seat is empty, these conciLIAR wolves in sheep clothing have done it, by changing the teachings of God, Himself. "


With respect, I think you can see the contradiction in that statement.

I see the GREATEST contradiction in your belief;  define the Vicar of Christ for us.  

What a nice display of scholarship and sound reasoning from you, ggreg.

Muito obrigado!

Neil is dead right. Hats off to ggreg for a comment that has both the ring and the splendor of truth about it. Forget about "true for SVs" or "true for R&Rs"—this is just plain true.

… See for yourself: there is no INRI on the top of this cross …

The sculptor Enrico Job most likely felt the INRI would be unnecessarily cluttering to his otherwise minimalist work of whatever-it-is.

Full marks and congratulations for noticing what I was not alone in missing entirely. Proof yet again that using one's eyes, ears, and wits is neither vain nor irreverent, despite what a certain someone has been telling us all ad nauseam.

Someone should start a poll:

Should andysloan be banned for trolling?

Firstly, there is not a single example of the Vatican II popes imposing error by virtue of the attribute of Infallibility of the Church.

So a pope may merrily teach and preach errors of all kinds so long as it isn't "done infallibily." You truly have a warped idea of the both the infallibility of the pope and the infallibility of the Church.