Papal infallibility 1870 is not even biblical.  It is a modernist  idea which is why Catholic Church is in trouble.

Matthew 15:17-18

17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.  18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.




Matthew 16:18-19

18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.




Luke 10:16

 16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.





Luke 22:31-32

31 And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:  32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.



1 Timothy 3:15

 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth

57. Moreover, that you may know that it is after His Manhood that He entreats, and in virtue of His Godhead that He commands, it is written for you in the Gospel that He said to Peter: "I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not." Luke 22:32 To the same Apostle, again, when on a former occasion he said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," He made answer: "You are Peter, and upon this Rock will I build My Church, and I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 16:18 Could He not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on His own authority, He gave the kingdom, whom He called the Rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church?

7. Clearly Peter’s confession received an appropriate reward because he had seen the Son of God in the man. He is blessed and exalted for having directed his view beyond human eyes, regarding not only that which was from flesh and blood, but perceiving the Son of God through the revelation of the heavenly Father. And he was judged worthy to be the first one to recognize that what was in Christ was of God. O happy is the foundation of the Church on account of the announcement of his new name. Worthy is the rock upon which the Church is built, against which the laws of hell and the gates of Tartarus and all the prisons of death are broken. O blessed porter of heaven, by whose decree the keys of eternity’s entrance are handed over, and whose earthly judgment with heavenly authority has already been decreed. Whatever has been bound or loosed on earth acquires the status of the very same decree in heaven.”

(6) It was necessary for the first of the Apostles, the solid rock, “upon whom the church of God would be built, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it,”. The gates of Hades are the heresies and the heresiarchs. (7) For in every way the faith was made firm in him, in the one who received the key of heaven, in the one who looses upon the earth and binds in heaven! (8) For in this man are found all the subtleties being asked of the faith.

And therefore I beseech you with a contrite heart and rivers of tears, with prostrated mind, deign to stretch forth your most clement right hand to the Apostolic doctrine which the co-worker of your pious labours, the blessed apostle Peter, has delivered, that it be not hidden under a bushel, but that it be preached in the whole earth more shrilly than a bugle: because the true confession thereof for which Peter was pronounced blessed by the Lord of all things, was revealed by the Father of heaven, for he received from the Redeemer of all himself, by three commendations, the duty of feeding the spiritual sheep of the Church; under whose protecting shield, this Apostolic Church of his has never turned away from the path of truth in any direction of error, whose authority, as that of the Prince of all the Apostles, the whole Catholic Church, and the Ecuмenical Synods have faithfully embraced, and followed in all things; and all the venerable Fathers have embraced its Apostolic doctrine, through which they as the most approved luminaries of the Church of Christ have shone; and the holy orthodox doctors have venerated and followed it, while the heretics have pursued it with false criminations and with derogatory hatred.


This is the living tradition of the Apostles of Christ, which his Church holds everywhere, which is chiefly to be loved and fostered, and is to be preached with confidence, which conciliates with God through its truthful confession, which also renders one commendable to Christ the Lord, which keeps the Christian empire of your Clemency, which gives far-reaching victories to your most pious Fortitude from the Lord of heaven, which accompanies you in battle, and defeats your foes; which protects on every side as an impregnable wall your God-sprung empire, which throws terror into opposing nations, and smites them with the divine wrath, which also in wars celestially gives triumphal palms over the downfall and subjection of the enemy, and ever guards your most faithful sovereignty secure and joyful in peace.


For this is the rule of the true faith, which this spiritual mother of your most tranquil empire, the Apostolic Church of Christ, has both in prosperity and in adversity always held and defended with energy; which, it will be proved, by the grace of Almighty God, has never erred from the path of the apostolic tradition, nor has she been depraved by yielding to heretical innovations, but from the beginning she has received the Christian faith from her founders, the princes of the Apostles of Christ, and remains undefiled unto the end, according to the divine promise of the Lord and Saviour himself, which he uttered in the holy Gospels to the prince of his disciples: saying, Peter, Peter, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he might sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for you, that (your) faith fail not. And when you are converted, strengthen your brethren. Let your tranquil Clemency therefore consider, since it is the Lord and Saviour of all, whose faith it is, that promised that Peter's faith should not fail and exhorted him to strengthen his brethren, how it is known to all that the Apostolic pontiffs, the predecessors of my littleness, have always confidently done this very thing: of whom also our littleness, since I have received this ministry by divine designation, wishes to be the follower, although unequal to them and the least of all.


For woe is me, if I neglect to preach the truth of my Lord, which they have sincerely preached. Woe is me, if I cover over with silence the truth which I am bidden to give to the exchangers, i.e., to teach to the Christian people and imbue it therewith. What shall I say in the future examination by Christ himself, if I blush (which God forbid!) to preach here the truth of his words? What satisfaction shall I be able to give for myself, what for the souls committed to me, when he demands a strict account of the office I have received? Who, then, my most clement and most pious lords and sons, (I speak trembling and prostrate in spirit) would not be stirred by that admirable promise, which is made to the faithful: Whoever shall confess me before men, him also will I confess before my Father, who is in heaven? And which one even of the infidels shall not be terrified by that most severe threat, in which he protests that he will be full of wrath, and declares that Whoever shall deny me before men, him also will I deny before my Father, who is in heaven? Whence also blessed Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, gives warning and says: But though we, or an angel from the heaven should preach to you any other Gospel from what we have evangelized to you, let him be anathema.

Sectio VIII

[ . . . ]

4. Nihilominus veritas Catholica est, Pontificem definientem ex cathedra, esse regulam fidei, quae errare non potest, quando aliquid authentice proponit ɐniuerfae ecclesiae, tanquam de fide diuina credendum

Section 8

[ . . . ]

4. Nevertheless, it is a Catholic truth, that the Pontiff defining ex cathedra, is a rule of faith, which possesses no error, whensoever he authoritatively proposes to the whole church, anything to be believed by divine faith

Summus Pontifex cuм totam Ecclesiam docet, in his quae ad Fidem pertinent nullo casu errare potest. » Haec est contra primam et secun¬ dam opinionem pro quarta ; et probatur primo ex promissione illa Domini Luc. XXII : Simon, Simon, (sic enim habetur in Graeco) ecce Satanas expetivit vos ut cribraret sicut triticuм , ego autem rogavi pro te, ut non defeiat Fides tua , et tu aliquando conversus confirma fratres tuos

[ . . . ]

Primum ex nomine petrae : quare enim Pontifex dicitur petra , nisi ratione constantiae, et soliditatis ? Certe si petra est , non frangetur, nec circuмferetur omni vento doctrinae, id est, non errabit in Fide saltem quatenus petra , id est, quatenus Pontifex est.

When the Supreme Pontiff teaches the whole Church, he cannot in any case err in matters pertaining to the Faith. This is contrary to the first and second opinions for the fourth; and it is first proved from that promise of the Lord (Luke 22: Simon, Simon, (for so it is said in Greek) Behold, Satan has sought you to sift as wheat, but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail, and you at some time turn and strengthen your brothers

[ . . . ]

First, from the name of the rock: for why is the Pontiff called a rock, except by reason of constancy and solidity? Certainly, if he is a rock, he will not be broken, nor carried around by every wind of doctrine, that is, he will not err in the Faith at least insofar as he is a rock, that is, insofar as he is a Pontiff.

I. De infallibiliate Papae

[ . . . ]

cuм tamen Papa loquitur tamquam doctor universalis, definiens ex cathedra, nempe ex potestate suprema, tradita Petro docendi Ecclesiam, tunc dicimus ipsum in controversiis fidei et morum decernendis omnino infallibilem esse.

I. On the infallibility of the Pope

[ . . . ]


when the Pope speaks as universal doctor, defining ex cathedra, that is, by the supreme authority, given to Peter to teach the Church, then we say that in deciding controversies of faith and morals he is absolutely infallible.

I just saw it now, and there is indeed a danger of Catholics slouching toward Old Catholicism that we've seen here.

I just saw it now, and there is indeed a danger of Catholics slouching toward Old Catholicism that we've seen here.

We have several posters here who practically post verbatim the theses of the OC Declaration of Utrecht.

Anything but sedevacantism.

Oh dear! I’ve just read this thread at one sitting and find that Viva’s post has been removed. Not that it would surprise me after reading the quote. Then I went to the member list and although she is still listed her profile does not appear. Has Viva been banned or is she just been given time-out?

I feel so sad for her. She does take things to extremes and tends to get very angry, when others do not react in her inimitable style. She needs our prayers badly. If you are reading, Viva, I will miss you and hope you’ll soon be back at least in the women’s section.
Viva declared herself sede just recently.