Galatians 1:8



Douay-Rheims Bible
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 

Galatians 1:8



Douay-Rheims Bible
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

God’s Word.  

"§ 2. After the reception of baptism, if anyone, retaining the name Christian, pertinaciously
denies or doubts something to be believed from the truth of divine and Catholic faith, [such a one
is] a heretic; if he completely turns away from the Christian faith, [such a one is] an apostate; if finally he refuses to be under the Supreme Pontiff or refuses communion with the members of the Church subject to him, he is a schismatic."

It is an excellent question, Gray, I agree, but ultimately it changes nothing about the way we view the crisis or how we should behave vis-a-vis the Pope in the current crisis.

You want to use this canon, no doubt, to demonstrate to R&Rers that if we recognise this Pope, we must subscribe to all his dictates on worship, discipline, faith and morals. If we resist such novelties coming from the Pope, you would maintain that we are, according to this law, schismatics. Thus, you demonstrate that the only Catholic line of conduct, according to this canon, is to deny that he is Pope. I hope I am not putting words in your mouth, but that is surely what you are asking me to explain.

Is that what this law of the Church is all about? Is that its intended purpose? Is that the intention of the law-maker, the mind of the legislator, that we use this law to judge a Pope? Does the legislator have in mind here an extraordinary crisis in the Church, where the Pope wants to destroy the Church (to borrow an expression from St Robert Bellarmine - whether or not you want to believe that that would involve heresy)?

When put that way, I think the answer is pretty obvious. That is not the intended purpose of the law.

Let us start by considering a few basic questions. What is Law? What is Canon Law? What is its purpose?

St Thomas defines law as an ordinance of reason for the common good, promulgated by the one who has care of the community. He goes on to explain "since then the lawgiver cannot have in view every single case, he shapes the law according to what happens most frequently... wherefore, if a case arise wherein the observance of that law would be hurtful to the general welfare, it should not be observed". In English we might say that the exception proves the rule. St Thomas even says that in time of necessity there is no law! That pretty much answers your question right there.

Pope Pius XII gives us this explanation of Canon Law: "Canon Law likewise is directed to the salvation of souls; and the purpose of all its regulations and laws is that men may live and die in the holiness given them by the grace of God" - Address to the clerical students of Rome, June 24, 1939

Continuing our consideration of what law is and how it ought to be applied, here is some wisdom from Fr Pivert (a Resistance priest in France who was a lawyer and also a member of the St Charles Borromeo Commission established by the SSPX to examine marriage cases):

"There are certain famous phrases that bear witness to the existence of important general dispensing law - such as: Lex positiva non obligat cuм gravi incommodo - no positive law obliges where there is grave inconvenience. Or again - Salus animarum suprema lex - the supreme law is the salvation of souls. These principles even allow the written laws to be abrogated by simple customs, which express reality in a concrete way (Canon 27)

"Furthermore, it can be seen that the Church under the guidance of the Holy Ghost, has happily foreseen such necessary exceptions to the law and, by positive laws, has even legislated for such exceptions.

"Finally - but is there a need to state the obvious - it must be noted that the higher principles of the law allow fewer dispensations than the lesser principles - and in cases of conflict or incompatibility, they must give way to the superior principles of law. 'We ought to obey God rather than men' says St Peter (Acts 5:29).

"St Paul similarly asks us to follow the spirit more than the letter, because 'the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth' (II Cor 3:16). This ability to free oneself from enslavement to the letter, when it is necessary to follow the spirit of the legislator, is called the virtue of equity. The actual use of that virtue is called epikeia." - Fr Francois Pivert, Schism or Not?,  1989

"Epikeia is an interpretation exempting one from the law contrary to the clear words of the law and in accordance with the mind of the legislator. It is evidently a very exceptional thing. It may be used with prudent discretion, and is justified, only in a particular case where: (a) the strict interpretation of the law would work a great hardship; and (b) in view of the usual interpretation it may be conjectured that, in this particular case, the legislator would not wish the law to be strictly applied." - Canon Law, A Text and Commentry, Bouscaren and Ellis, 1951

So Gray, that is one way of looking at the question - the purpose of the law, the mind of the legislator, exceptions to the law.

Another way to look at it is to ask what it means to be in communion with the Pope, and Stubborn has given you the answer to that in a nutshell.

I hope you can agree that this law is telling us neither to follow novelties of a bad Pope, nor to depose him.

Why bring up canon law when canon law has been rejected by Rome?

God’s 10 commandments has been rejected too. 

Basically, yes!
That's why we call it a crisis...
Yet it is not that easy to solve. You declare him not Pope and then what??? Look to a defected Church to provide anther one for you? Or are you a conclavist?
We all pretty much agree that it's all a terrible mess and only God can fix it.
We all agree we have to hold on to Tradition and continue in the faith of our fathers and pray God to come to our aid.
Let's stick to what is certain and leave the rest in the hands of God.

And with all that, to any who are still calmly reading, here's to a prayerful and recollected last day of the year. May Our Lord keep you and yours safe and sound and on the narrow path in 2024. Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.

I'll drink to that, Soubirous! Happy New Year!

Gray, do you believe that Jorge Bergoglio has pertinaciously denied "something to be believed from the truth of the divine and Catholic faith?" If you answer yes to that question, then, Canon 1325.2 defines him as a "heretic." A heretic is automatically [ipso facto] excommunicated, according to Canon 2314.

So, if you refuse "to be under" a papal claimant who is in a state of excommunication, you would not be in schism. In fact, we are told in Canon 1324 that "it is not enough to avoid heretical depravity but also those errors should be diligently fled that more or less approach heresy." How can we be fleeing heresy if the authoritative leader of our Church, the guy we refer to as "the Holy Father," is himself a manifest heretic? That is the heart of the R&R contradiction.

Bergoglio is not the leader of the Roman Catholic Church. He is the leader of a different Church, the Counterfeit Catholic Church, what St. John refers to as "Babylon the great" in Apocalypse 18:

1 And after these things, I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power: and the earth was enlightened with his glory. 2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen; and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every unclean spirit, and the hold of every unclean and hateful bird: 3 Because all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication; and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her; and the merchants of the earth have been made rich by the power of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying: Go out from her, my people; that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and the Lord hath remembered her iniquities.

I believe he is elected to the position of Pope.  I believe he is not protected by the Holy Ghost.  I believe that we do not know how this will be fixed and I pray and wait for Pope Francis's conversion or a good and Holy Pope.  I trust that in God's time all will become clear.

It is an excellent question, Gray, I agree, but ultimately it changes nothing about the way we view the crisis or how we should behave vis-a-vis the Pope in the current crisis.

You want to use this canon, no doubt, to demonstrate to R&Rers that if we recognise this Pope, we must subscribe to all his dictates on worship, discipline, faith and morals. If we resist such novelties coming from the Pope, you would maintain that we are, according to this law, schismatics. Thus, you demonstrate that the only Catholic line of conduct, according to this canon, is to deny that he is Pope. I hope I am not putting words in your mouth, but that is surely what you are asking me to explain.

Is that what this law of the Church is all about? Is that its intended purpose? Is that the intention of the law-maker, the mind of the legislator, that we use this law to judge a Pope? Does the legislator have in mind here an extraordinary crisis in the Church, where the Pope wants to destroy the Church (to borrow an expression from St Robert Bellarmine - whether or not you want to believe that that would involve heresy)?

When put that way, I think the answer is pretty obvious. That is not the intended purpose of the law.

Let us start by considering a few basic questions. What is Law? What is Canon Law? What is its purpose?

St Thomas defines law as an ordinance of reason for the common good, promulgated by the one who has care of the community. He goes on to explain "since then the lawgiver cannot have in view every single case, he shapes the law according to what happens most frequently... wherefore, if a case arise wherein the observance of that law would be hurtful to the general welfare, it should not be observed". In English we might say that the exception proves the rule. St Thomas even says that in time of necessity there is no law! That pretty much answers your question right there.

Pope Pius XII gives us this explanation of Canon Law: "Canon Law likewise is directed to the salvation of souls; and the purpose of all its regulations and laws is that men may live and die in the holiness given them by the grace of God" - Address to the clerical students of Rome, June 24, 1939

Continuing our consideration of what law is and how it ought to be applied, here is some wisdom from Fr Pivert (a Resistance priest in France who was a lawyer and also a member of the St Charles Borromeo Commission established by the SSPX to examine marriage cases):

"There are certain famous phrases that bear witness to the existence of important general dispensing law - such as: Lex positiva non obligat cuм gravi incommodo - no positive law obliges where there is grave inconvenience. Or again - Salus animarum suprema lex - the supreme law is the salvation of souls. These principles even allow the written laws to be abrogated by simple customs, which express reality in a concrete way (Canon 27)

"Furthermore, it can be seen that the Church under the guidance of the Holy Ghost, has happily foreseen such necessary exceptions to the law and, by positive laws, has even legislated for such exceptions.

"Finally - but is there a need to state the obvious - it must be noted that the higher principles of the law allow fewer dispensations than the lesser principles - and in cases of conflict or incompatibility, they must give way to the superior principles of law. 'We ought to obey God rather than men' says St Peter (Acts 5:29).

"St Paul similarly asks us to follow the spirit more than the letter, because 'the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth' (II Cor 3:16). This ability to free oneself from enslavement to the letter, when it is necessary to follow the spirit of the legislator, is called the virtue of equity. The actual use of that virtue is called epikeia." - Fr Francois Pivert, Schism or Not?,  1989

"Epikeia is an interpretation exempting one from the law contrary to the clear words of the law and in accordance with the mind of the legislator. It is evidently a very exceptional thing. It may be used with prudent discretion, and is justified, only in a particular case where: (a) the strict interpretation of the law would work a great hardship; and (b) in view of the usual interpretation it may be conjectured that, in this particular case, the legislator would not wish the law to be strictly applied." - Canon Law, A Text and Commentry, Bouscaren and Ellis, 1951

So Gray, that is one way of looking at the question - the purpose of the law, the mind of the legislator, exceptions to the law.

Another way to look at it is to ask what it means to be in communion with the Pope, and Stubborn has given you the answer to that in a nutshell.

I hope you can agree that this law is telling us neither to follow novelties of a bad Pope, nor to depose him.

I understand the laws in theory, but I as a mother have to teach new Catholics and myself how to behave as a proper Catholic in a time where I never had a Catholic role model. 

Plenus are you a parent?